quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
The cost of transporting 30,000 private school students in gender-specific buses to a multitude of Orthodox schools consumes the bulk of the public school's $24.5 million transportation budget.

Is there a legitimate reason for this to be happening that I'm not seeing/understanding?

I understand the bell curve and all. I'm all for reducing welfare fraud and support such efforts.

I don't care that the offenders are jews but something tells me that the offenders being jews and not something else did matter in the crackdown. It's a start but I wish they'd cast the net much wider.

The reason is that in the Hasidic (and some other Jewish communities) the separation of male and female is a Talmudic observance.

It has to do with religous "cleanliness" (think of religious "cleanliness" as a state, similar to hospital sanitization, not a matter of "good or bad", but "fit or unfit" for use or service), and since a woman in the time of her period is considered "unclean, cerimonlily", and a male has no way of knowing this, males and females in these comunities do not touch, hold hands and so forth.

Likely started out with one or two buses long ago, and simply grew as the comunity grew.

I would have argued busses be "one side for males, one side for females, or that the funding be "X dollars per bus based on the total number of children transported, as in any other community, and if there is a need for additional busses because of the need/desire to have separate transportation, those additional costs be born by the community.

I have no trouble with setting baselines, and if you need mre due to your culture, you pay.

But thses things go back to the whole discussion of systems like welfare, sutinance, housing, and other things to specific groups, that they will create an enviornment that will be exploited by the "governance" of the systems, and the "benefactors" of the systems, while those fotting the bill often have no way to keep the former in check.

Lakewood is unique as it has a large population of both Orthodox and Hasidic Jews as well as other branches. My wife is Jewish and can't stand the way the Hasidic Jews take advantage of the system. I worked the next town over from Lakewood and we had to deal with many Hasidic Jews trying to get over on our water utility. One example was that since we bordered Lakewood, at times we would make an exception and run a water and sewer line into the town. The Hasidic Jews wanted a line run to their soon to be complete Yeshiva. In the permit, the number of occupants was limited to 40. We went one morning before the school buses arrived to count the students. Our count was roughly 200. It makes a big difference in permit fees and also to our customers that we supply with water especially during peak demand time.
If you drive in Lakewood, you would be amazed on the number of Hasidic drivers that can't drive, don't have insurance or register their vehicle. My favorite is a local bumper sticker that reads "Pray for me, I drive in Lakewood".

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
The reason is that in the Hasidic (and some other Jewish communities) the separation of male and female is a Talmudic observance.

It has to do with religous "cleanliness" (think of religious "cleanliness" as a state, similar to hospital sanitization, not a matter of "good or bad", but "fit or unfit" for use or service), and since a woman in the time of her period is considered "unclean, cerimonlily", and a male has no way of knowing this, males and females in these comunities do not touch, hold hands and so forth.

Likely started out with one or two buses long ago, and simply grew as the comunity grew.

I would have argued busses be "one side for males, one side for females, or that the funding be "X dollars per bus based on the total number of children transported, as in any other community, and if there is a need for additional busses because of the need/desire to have separate transportation, those additional costs be born by the community.

I have no trouble with setting baselines, and if you need mre due to your culture, you pay.

But thses things go back to the whole discussion of systems like welfare, sutinance, housing, and other things to specific groups, that they will create an enviornment that will be exploited by the "governance" of the systems, and the "benefactors" of the systems, while those fotting the bill often have no way to keep the former in check.

The Lakewood School system is in total ruin financially as the private Yeshivas get tax dollars funded by the residents of Lakewood. You would be surprised at the number of Lakewood students I have in a district that is 15 miles from Lakewood, as the district I'm in is a "choice" school. This means my district will accept students from the entire county.

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
The reason is that in the Hasidic (and some other Jewish communities) the separation of male and female is a Talmudic observance.

It has to do with religous "cleanliness" (think of religious "cleanliness" as a state, similar to hospital sanitization, not a matter of "good or bad", but "fit or unfit" for use or service), and since a woman in the time of her period is considered "unclean, cerimonlily", and a male has no way of knowing this, males and females in these comunities do not touch, hold hands and so forth.

Likely started out with one or two buses long ago, and simply grew as the comunity grew.

I would have argued busses be "one side for males, one side for females, or that the funding be "X dollars per bus based on the total number of children transported, as in any other community, and if there is a need for additional busses because of the need/desire to have separate transportation, those additional costs be born by the community.

I have no trouble with setting baselines, and if you need mre due to your culture, you pay.

But thses things go back to the whole discussion of systems like welfare, sutinance, housing, and other things to specific groups, that they will create an enviornment that will be exploited by the "governance" of the systems, and the "benefactors" of the systems, while those fotting the bill often have no way to keep the former in check.

The Lakewood School system is in total ruin financially as the private Yeshivas get tax dollars funded by the residents of Lakewood. You would be surprised at the number of Lakewood students I have in a district that is 15 miles from Lakewood, as the district I'm in is a "choice" school. This means my district will accept students from the entire county.

The different buses makes sense to me from their religious point of view, but why are public dollars used to transport kids to private, religious schools? Is that typical?

quote:

Originally posted by Palm:

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
The reason is that in the Hasidic (and some other Jewish communities) the separation of male and female is a Talmudic observance.

It has to do with religous "cleanliness" (think of religious "cleanliness" as a state, similar to hospital sanitization, not a matter of "good or bad", but "fit or unfit" for use or service), and since a woman in the time of her period is considered "unclean, cerimonlily", and a male has no way of knowing this, males and females in these comunities do not touch, hold hands and so forth.

Likely started out with one or two buses long ago, and simply grew as the comunity grew.

I would have argued busses be "one side for males, one side for females, or that the funding be "X dollars per bus based on the total number of children transported, as in any other community, and if there is a need for additional busses because of the need/desire to have separate transportation, those additional costs be born by the community.

I have no trouble with setting baselines, and if you need mre due to your culture, you pay.

But thses things go back to the whole discussion of systems like welfare, sutinance, housing, and other things to specific groups, that they will create an enviornment that will be exploited by the "governance" of the systems, and the "benefactors" of the systems, while those fotting the bill often have no way to keep the former in check.

The Lakewood School system is in total ruin financially as the private Yeshivas get tax dollars funded by the residents of Lakewood. You would be surprised at the number of Lakewood students I have in a district that is 15 miles from Lakewood, as the district I'm in is a "choice" school. This means my district will accept students from the entire county.

The different buses makes sense to me from their religious point of view, but why are public dollars used to transport kids to private, religious schools? Is that typical?

Yes, in NJ. The township school buses are overwhelmed. The township suggested the Yeshivas stagger the times of the openings/closing so the buses could handle the separate genders (start the boys at 8:00 and girls 8:30). The Yeshivas refused. How do you deal with people that only want it their way? It's total nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by sidss1:
I just listened to a radio program about the Hasidic community of East Ramapore, NY, and all the shenanigans they are pulling in the Public School District. They are diverting lots of public funds from the public schools tp private Yeshivas. And they have taken over the School Board, and the city officials are in the pockets of the Hasidic community. And any criticism of what they are doing is met with denials and unfounded accusations of"antiSemitism" by the Hasids, and thus they try to shut down discussions and everyone is frightened of offending the Hasids. In fact, we see it here, V-Tail jumped on Ramius just because Ramius was discussing how bad the Hasids are.
I am not Jewish, but am the grandson of a German-Jewish lady, whose entire family was killed in Treblinka.
But, the Hasids are the worst among the worst, always using the slur of antisemitism as a defence.

Funny, I just listened to this This American Life podcast yesterday. It is amazing what happened in that school district. Recommend highly. Here's a link: https://www.thisamericanlife.o...t-so-simple-majority

quote:

Originally posted by equivet:

quote:

Originally posted by sidss1:
I just listened to a radio program about the Hasidic community of East Ramapore, NY, and all the shenanigans they are pulling in the Public School District. They are diverting lots of public funds from the public schools tp private Yeshivas. And they have taken over the School Board, and the city officials are in the pockets of the Hasidic community. And any criticism of what they are doing is met with denials and unfounded accusations of"antiSemitism" by the Hasids, and thus they try to shut down discussions and everyone is frightened of offending the Hasids. In fact, we see it here, V-Tail jumped on Ramius just because Ramius was discussing how bad the Hasids are.
I am not Jewish, but am the grandson of a German-Jewish lady, whose entire family was killed in Treblinka.
But, the Hasids are the worst among the worst, always using the slur of antisemitism as a defence.

Funny, I just listened to this This American Life podcast yesterday. It is amazing what happened in that school district. Recommend highly. Here's a link: https://www.thisamericanlife.o...t-so-simple-majority

In short, the Hasidim got control of the local school boards and have systematically de-funded the public schools because they didn't use them and didn't want to pay school taxes. They also made themselves some sweetheart deals on the sale of closed schools and used state and federal money in ways that are probably not permitted - such as sending state and federal money to Yeshivas for special education when special education is mandated to take place in mainstream schools.

It was an interesting program. If I were a non Hasidic parent in that school district, I would be infuriated. On the other hand, it is democracy, baby. The Hasidim got control of the school board by entirely legal means.

Sounds like New York state needs more stringent state standards for schools. I am normally not in favor of more centralized control, but when a local government goes out of control because of a very local majority, more state-level control may be appropriate.

I wish they would go after the FLDS more.

Warren Jeffs is in prison, but his brother was out for a while and just recently caught.

Warren is apparently running the "compound" (read: Colorado City, AZ) as a public assistance sham, and pocketing the money via his brothers/staff.

At least there is no rumors (at least not that I'm aware of) in Lakewood NJ of "church leaders marrying 9 year olds"...

And while they are at it, why the heck can't "we" go after Scientology... Tom Cruise or not?!?!?!

James in Denver

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
In my family the Asians are def bad drivers. We have two totaled cars, two smashed garage doors and countless smaller 'matters' to prove it.

When I was driving a carload of fellow software engineers to a talk at another company and another driver did something kinda crazy one of the guys said "Women drivers"! I responded that I thought it was a case of DWO. After a awhile I was able to confirm was was not a women and was a case of DWO. One of the engineers with a last name of Li asked what DWO meant. When I replied "Driving While Oriental" his immediate response was "You racist bastard!" Followed by admitting there was something to it...

Maybe I am looking at this all wrong, and I certainly don't condone the thefts, but I think the real fix is to do away with the public assistance. Lock up these perps for sure, but shut down the system.

[reactionary mode]
The more money that Uncle Sugar is passing out, the more he is stealing from the productive, and the more temptation for all kinds of folks to try and get some of it. Keep the military and fire 90-95 percent of the rest of the Federal Government. Get rid of almost all entitlement programs. Figure out how to do away (equitably) with the Ponzi schemes that are Social Security and Medicare. Teddy Roosevelt said it best, "Root hog, or die." [/reactionary mode]

quote:

Originally posted by James in Denver:
I wish they would go after the FLDS more.

Warren Jeffs is in prison, but his brother was out for a while and just recently caught.

Warren is apparently running the "compound" (read: Colorado City, AZ) as a public assistance sham, and pocketing the money via his brothers/staff.

At least there is no rumors (at least not that I'm aware of) in Lakewood NJ of "church leaders marrying 9 year olds"...

And while they are at it, why the heck can't "we" go after Scientology... Tom Cruise or not?!?!?!

James in Denver

Warren Steed Jeffs has done his flock wrong enough. There needs to be some sort of deprogramming of these victims. Some of them just don't know what life is about without the 'Prophet'.

David Miscavige is in a jail of his own making. Just where he should be. He is never outside of the grasp of his own surveillance. Paranoia self perpetuates itself.

Unfortunately, these environments are governed by such Cognitive Dissonance that those who know the truth need no explanation. For those that do not know the truth, no explanation is possible.

If we really wanted to right some wrongs, we need to ban together and dispose of the scourge that is Canada. Just sayin' yo.

Anyway, lets get back to dem jooz.

H&K-Guy

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:... snipped for brevity...

On the record, this kind of crap pisses me off, no matter who is behind it, and at the same time pisses me off because it is a "familiy" thing.

It is a greater evil to dishonor your own kind for sake of your self, than it is dishonorable to refuse to defend your own when they do such things.

This is about welfare fraud, who or what group did it is irrelevant.
It's massive and only the tip of the iceberg.
I live in this county and have no prejudices against any group of people. Gaming the system is gaming the system.

quote:

This is about welfare fraud, who or what group did it is irrelevant.
It's massive and only the tip of the iceberg.
I live in this county and have no prejudices against any group of people. Gaming the system is gaming the system.

Well said, besides no one mentioned my ethnic group.

quote:

Originally posted by James in Denver:
I wish they would go after the FLDS more.

Warren Jeffs is in prison, but his brother was out for a while and just recently caught.

Warren is apparently running the "compound" (read: Colorado City, AZ) as a public assistance sham, and pocketing the money via his brothers/staff.

At least there is no rumors (at least not that I'm aware of) in Lakewood NJ of "church leaders marrying 9 year olds"...

And while they are at it, why the heck can't "we" go after Scientology... Tom Cruise or not?!?!?!

James in Denver

Well said. Lets not overlook those islamo-supremacist bastards in the UK. The bastards have three wives and eight children. They preach jihad against the system that subsidizes them for $5,000 per month. But maybe that is not fraud as the government is complicit.

Getting something for nothing is an universal human endevor.

There's a huge difference between most "orthodox" Jews and the "ultra-orthodox", AKA Hassidics. My father was Jewish, and I can't post his opinion of the Hassidics in this forum, but it was basically, "They are the worst people, period!". Their gaming the system in the NYC area was exposed in an article in the WSJ, I thing it was, about 20 years ago. If they don't bust them in large numbers, they will continue to pull the same crap again and again.

"The Tip of The Iceberg"

WELFARE FRAUD INVESTIGATION
MORE ARRESTS IN LAKEWOOD

NEW CHARGES: Three couples join the accused MORE COMING: ‘ This is just the beginning’ PAYTON GUION @PAYTONGUION ALEX N. GECAN @GEEKSTERTWEETS AND ANDREW FORD @ANDREWFORDNEWS LAKEWOOD -

Six people were arrested Tuesday night in federal and state raids in connection with an ongoing investigation that has so far exposed about $2 million in alleged public-assistance fraud in the town.
State authorities raided three homes Tuesday night, after raiding four homes and arresting eight people Monday on charges of stealing $1.3 million in public assistance.
“This is astronomical in terms of benefits,” said a law enforcement source close to the investigation, who added there would be more arrests. “This is just the beginning.”
Each of the six people arrested Tuesday is facing a charge of second-degree theft by deception, a state crime, according to a prepared statement from the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office.
The six people are accused of defrauding the government of just over $670,000, according to the Prosecutor’s Office.
Those arrested Tuesday were Yitzchok and Sora Kanarek, of 15 Brisk Lane; Chaim and Liatt Ehrman, of 501 Twin Oaks Drive; and William and Faigy Friedman, of



Clockwise from top left: Yitzchok Kanarek, William Friedman, Sora Kanarek, Chaim Ehrman, Faigy Friedman and Liatt Ehrman.
COURTESY OCEAN COUNTY PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE

Chaim Ehrman of Lakewood, one of six more arrested in the welfare fraud investigation, appears on a video screen as he attends his first appearance before Judge James Blaney at Ocean County Courthouse in Toms River.
TANYA BREEN/STAFF PHOTOGRAPHER

36 Leigh Drive.
In a statement issued late Wednesday and signed by Rabbi Mose Zev Weisberg, the Lakewood Vaad said it was “saddened beyond words” by the arrests, but added “As firm believers in the principle of ‘innocent until proven guilty,’ we suspend judgment until the disposition of these charges, and are comforted knowing that our judicial system is an able arbiter of justice.”
Still, the Vaad – the influential council of local Orthodox Jewish religious and business leaders – said it viewed the arrests as a “valuable teaching moment that cannot be wasted.”
“There is no such a thing as ‘justified’ theft,” the statement continued. “Federal and State social safety-net programs are meant for those in need, even those in need have rules and criteria that must be strictly followed. To deliberately bend a safety-net eligibility rule is stealing, no different than stealing from your friend or neighbor.
“We would all do well to redouble and triple our efforts in our communities, reminding each and every one of us that there is never any excuse for dishonesty in any form.”
The group ended its statement by vowing to “launch a set of intensive educational programs that can ensure that such does not happen again,” and said the public would be invited to participate.
All six defendants video-conferenced into their first appearances before Judge James Blaney in Ocean County Superior Court Wednesday afternoon, where they were all released on their own recognizance.
The prosecution requested that the defendants give up their passports to the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office in addition to checking in monthly over the phone.
The Kanareks wrongfully collected $339,002.56 in Medicaid, nutrition assistance, Social Security and federal housing funds, according to the prosecutor’s office. The Ehrmans brought in $185,692.22 in improper Medicaid, nutrition assistance, utilities assistance and Sandy relief funds and the Friedmans bilked $149,842.28 in Medicaid, food, energy and housing funds, according to the prosecutor’s office.
The arrests and raids were originally scheduled for Wednesday morning, but the prosecutor moved them up due to media reports on Tuesday afternoon, according to a law enforcement source.
“These continued arrests demonstrate the partner agencies’ vigilance in addressing government-benefits fraud in the Lakewood community and holding those who steal from New Jersey taxpayers accountable for their actions,” said the source, who wasn’t authorized to speak publicly.
Yitzchok Kanarek is the former rabbi of Oros Yisroel, a school for specialneeds students that closed in 2015 due to federal and state tax liens of more than $295,000, according to public records.
Faigy Friedman is listed as the registered agent of a company called Pay-Per Payroll Services LLC, public records show. A brochure for the company lists her home address as the address of the business, which offers payroll services to small businesses. Registered agents are required by the state as a point of contact for a business and are not necessarily the owner of the company.
Chaim Ehrman is listed as the registered agent of three businesses, according to public records. They are Buy it By Cases, The Jewelers List and True Hue, a cosmetics company. The businesses are not expected to be named in any of the charges, according to law enforcement officials.
Like those arrested Monday, the six people arrested Tuesday are accused of underreporting their incomes over a period of several years to collect public-assistance benefits they weren’t entitled to receive.
Authorities “allege that the defendants misrepresented their income, declaring amounts that were low enough to receive the program’s benefits, when in fact their income was too high to qualify,” according to a joint statement from Ocean County Prosecutor Joe Coronato and state Comptroller Phillip James Degnan. The families “received income from numerous sources that they failed to disclose on required program applications.”
Yosef B. Jacobovitch, of Lakewoodbased Schwartz Burton LLP, is representing the Kanareks and Ehrmans. Stacy Ann Biancamano of Biancamano Law in Chatham is representing Faigy Friedman.

Authorities arrive at a Lakewood home to arrest Mordechai and Jocheved Breskin, who are accused of collecting more than $585,000 in government benefits which they didn’t deserve.

http://asburyparkpress.nj.news...ype=paid_subscriber&

Oh yeah, not shocked at all. My sister lives in the next town over. I hate, yes hate, even driving through that Lakewood.

quote:

Originally posted by sidss1:
I just listened to a radio program about the Hasidic community of East Ramapo, NY, and all the shenanigans they are pulling in the Public School District.

On the other side you have Kiryas Joel, also a huge drain on public resources, despite their self imposed segregation. (they don't want anything to do with outsiders but will take their money)

Both places I learned about years ago from other Jews who seemed to hate them more than anyone else probably would.