SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Are bullets that have been fired into water lethal? i.e. Storming the beach in Saving Private Ryan
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Are bullets that have been fired into water lethal? i.e. Storming the beach in Saving Private Ryan Login/Join 
Member
Picture of Dead_Eye
posted
I'm assuming we've all seen the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan where the troops storming the beach are shot underwater and with enough energy to kill them. It got me to thinking because I've heard credible sources argue both sides and remember lightly researching it a while ago but never really got a conclusive answer.

To avoid a bunch of replies saying "it depends on caliber, bullet coefficient, distance, velocity, etc." I'll keep it real simple: Could the Germans using their standard issued weapons and ammo shoot into the water from their positions and kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?


__________________________________________________________________

Beware the man who has one gun because he probably knows how to use it.
 
Posts: 368 | Location: Somplace with cold drinks and warm women | Registered: May 04, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
Mythbusters tackled something similar on one of their shows.

According to a summary I found online, the results were:

quote:
All supersonic bullets (up to .50-caliber) disintegrated in less than 3 feet (90 cm) of water, but slower velocity bullets, like pistol rounds, need up to 8 feet (2.4 m) of water to slow to non-lethal speeds. Shotgun slugs require even more depth (the exact depth couldn’t be determined because their one test broke the rig). However, as most water-bound shots are fired from an angle, less actual depth is needed to create the necessary separation.


So it sounds like it's possible, but it's going to depend on a few different variables, including the velocity of the round as it strikes the water, the angle of the round striking the water, and the composition of the round itself (to resist disintegration).
 
Posts: 32430 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Achievement Unlocked
Picture of SIGnul 9
posted Hide Post
Mythbusters tested this years ago and I think the result was that the bullets lost all of their velocity within just a few feet.




This is one of the few signals that can't be caught or blocked; when a process is sent SIGKILL, it never runs again. This is signal 9, as in the ever-popular kill -9
 
Posts: 1050 | Location: Las Vegas, NV | Registered: August 11, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Blinded by
the Sun
Picture of GA Gator
posted Hide Post
Mythbusters did a show on this year's ago. Wait I'll look it up.


------------------------------
Smart is not something you are but something you get.

Chi Chi, get the yayo
 
Posts: 4785 | Location: Home | Registered: April 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
I think Mythbusters did it?

Wink




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 11446 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
I don't really recall the scene very well, so I'll take a WAG.
quote:
Could the Germans using their standard issued weapons and ammo shoot into the water from their positions and kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?

With rifles or rifle-caliber machine guns? IMO, not from the beach. They'd have to be in the water, right next to, almost on top of, the soldiers wading ashore. Rounds that fell short could skip off the water surface and hit a man's exposed torso and head. Obviously this is not under the water. Now, artillery fire might be a different story. But this sounds like it's made up for the movie.
 
Posts: 27835 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Certified All Positions
Picture of arcwelder
posted Hide Post
If I remember, the guys getting shot underwater were busy drowning because of their equipment, so really... they were likely dead.

It's possible, but is it likely?

As far as people who died in water too deep to stand up in, how deep they were when they were shot, if they were shot, is an open question really, isn't it?

It wasn't just machinegun fire coming in either.


Arc.
______________________________
"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash
"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman
Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM
"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 27000 | Location: On fire, off the shoulder of Orion | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Iirc, "Hatcher's Notebook" said 6 feet of water to stop rifle bullets. 6 feet on diagonal is not very deep.

100 pounds of wet clothes, gear, rifle & ammo, wading thru water while being shot at sounds like Hell.


Less is more.
 
Posts: 3995 | Location: Florida | Registered: March 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official forum
SIG Pro
enthusiast
Picture of stickman428
posted Hide Post
Where did mythbusters find a MG42 for their test?

I wonder if armor piercing, steel core and just plain lead ammo all perform about the same in water?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
 
Posts: 21075 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of billnchristy
posted Hide Post
When they did live fire in the navy, we would shoot machine guns off the elevator and every tracer would bounce. You seem to need to be at a perfect angle to penetrate the water.


------------------------------------
My books on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/William-...id=1383531982&sr=8-1
email if you'd like auto'd copies.
 
Posts: 17916 | Location: Lawrenceville GA | Registered: April 15, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of jbcummings
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by stickman428:
Where did mythbusters find a MG42 for their test?

I wonder if armor piercing, steel core and just plain lead ammo all perform about the same in water?


I'd assume there were plenty of 8mm rifles on that shore like the K98. Not quite equivalent to a 30-06, but close.


———-
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup.
 
Posts: 4306 | Location: DFW | Registered: May 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
Movie physics, the kind that allow a bullet to curve toward its target by flicking one's wrist at the moment of firing, or Clint Eastwood firing a MP40 in each hand.
 
Posts: 27835 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Member"
Picture of cas
posted Hide Post
You can watch the YouTube video collaborations of Smarter Every Day and The Slow Mo Guys shooting rifles and pistols underwater in a pool and the bullets don't go very far. Interesting to watch if you haven't seen it.


_____________________________________________________
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 21053 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of erj_pilot
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dead_Eye:
I'll keep it real simple: Could the Germans using their standard issued weapons and ammo shoot into the water from their positions and kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?

Two words......

Theatrical
Licensing



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 11054 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Wanna Missile
Picture of tanksoldier
posted Hide Post
quote:
kill soldiers who were submerged in water no deeper than 6 feet?


If they were deep enough to avoid the bullets, it's because they were being drowned by their gear.



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
 
Posts: 21542 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: January 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
Bullets are going less than lethal speeds within just a few feet of travelling in water.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53118 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Go watch the mythbusters episode "bulletproof water". Very Interesting. They shot a 30-06 out of a Garand into a pool with a ballistic gel dummy. With a few feet after entering water the bullet not only was not lethal they would actually distentegrate
 
Posts: 4737 | Location: Florida Panhandle  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I've always had a problem with that Mythbusters episode.

The rifle bullets all broke up while the pistol bullets didn't, but quickly lost velocity.

They never took the time to find out at what velocity (range) it would take for the rifle bullets not to break up and penetrate the water.

What if the 30.06 had stayed together at say 1800fps? Same with the 50 cal., what if it had remained together at half or a third of its muzzle velocity? How much energy still exists for a projectile that big?

I didn't think they were thorough enough
 
Posts: 193 | Registered: May 24, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Wanna Missile
Picture of tanksoldier
posted Hide Post
Yep. MB shot the water from 3 feet away. What if the bullet had already traveled 1000 yards?



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
 
Posts: 21542 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: January 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moving cash
for money
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by billnchristy:
When they did live fire in the navy, we would shoot machine guns off the elevator and every tracer would bounce. You seem to need to be at a perfect angle to penetrate the water.

There is joke in there, something about squids qualifing by shoot off the deck and hitting the water...




"When in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout" R.I.P. R.A.H.
Ooga Chakka Hooga Hooga Ooga Chakka Hooga Hooga
NRA Basic Rifle Instructor
Red Cross First Aid/CPR/AED Adult/Child/Infant Instructor
Red Cross Wilderness First Aid Instructor
 
Posts: 9912 | Location: Jawjah | Registered: December 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Are bullets that have been fired into water lethal? i.e. Storming the beach in Saving Private Ryan

© SIGforum 2024