***** Update at the end of this post *****

I will attempt to keep this story as dispassionate as possible. But it is very long.

Background - I am a 47 year old white male with no criminal record. My last traffic ticket was about 2006. At the time this occurred I was driving my personal vehicle which has Florida plates. In the car were my wife (45), daughter (11) and son (7).

I will not yet name where this happened, but we were out of state. We were on our way to an amusement / theme park. And I ran a red light. Completely my fault, I did not see the light, I was following the van in front of me and not looking up. I was obeying the speed limit at the time this happened. The cross traffic was not yet moving, so there were no near misses.

There was an officer a few cars back and he activates his lights and speeds to catch up to me. I see him coming and I start to look for a place to pull over. And this is where the problem begins.

The road is a 4 lane highway. No center lane. There are permanent plastic barricades on the double yellow center line to separate oncoming traffic. To the right is a gravel shoulder which is about 3, maybe 4 feet wide at the most, then a metal and cable guardrail, and then a few rocks and water.

The road appears to be one of those roads that was built through shallow water out of fill rocks and dirt and was made just wide enough for the travel lanes, and that was it.

Here are two pictures of the road;





Not seeing a safe place to pull over, I maintain the speed limit of 35 mph and turn on my hazard lights to let the officer know I am aware of his presence. I leave them on for 20 seconds or so and then, because it is illegal in Florida to drive with hazards on, I turn them off.

I keep driving, and still seeing no place to pull over, I decide to go ahead try to pull over on what shoulder is available. I do actually get my tires on the gravel and almost get to a complete stop before I think better of it. I am driving a Suburban. That is not mine in the pic, but it gives a good idea of the narrowness of the road. Not even half of my vehicle fits on the shoulder. My drivers window is lined up with the center of the right lane. I have just crossed over a bridge (seen in the 1st picture), which creates a blind spot, and there is a curve to the road (seen in the 2nd picture), which creates another blind spot. Not feeling comfortable with this, for myself or the officer, I keep driving at the speed limit of 35 mph.

Finally, less than 150 feet shy of the parking pay attendants for this amusement park, the road widens greatly and I pull over immediately. At this point, I have driven 1.4 miles from the red light, probably 1.2-1.3 miles since the officer has been behind me with his lights on.

I am instructed to exit the vehicle, hands up and walk backwards towards him. When I reach him he tells me I am be detained and handcuffs me. He then walks me behind his car, has me spread my legs and pats me down. He then asks me why I did not stop. I tell him that there was no safe place to pull over, for him or me.

About this time, another officer shows up. He tends to me while the original officer tends to my wife and children. The second officer pats me down also. He then tells me that he is not sure if I am being arrested, but I am being detained, so he is going to read me my rights. He also asks why I did not stop. I repeat my answer. He tells me that people who do not stop immediately have something to hide.

Eventually, there are 5 officers on scene, including a K-9 unit. My car is searched. Nothing is found. After 20 minutes or so in the back of the squad car, the officer tells me that my family will meet me at the jail.

I am booked into jail, my wife posts the bond at the courthouse, and I walk out about a hour after arriving.

I am not cited for running the red light. In fact, I never receive, physically, a citation for anything. The only reason I know what he charged me with is because I could see his computer screen. Ohio code 2921.331 for those interested. This is the failure to comply code. I also know because he repeated to my wife multiple times that I was fleeing. This is the code / charge they use for people who flee / run from officers.

Another interesting note, while I was told I was being detained, I was never told I was being arrested. At no point did any officer say "You are under arrest" or anything similar.

And within 20 minutes of walking out of jail, I was sitting down consulting with an attorney. What happens from here on out will be up to her and, I suppose, how much money and time I willing to spend.

So, after that long story, was the officer out of line? Or is this my own fault?

***** Update - The official charges were fleeing and eluding an officer and running the red light. My attorney met with the prosecutor and they agreed to drop the fleeing and eluding charge and reduced the red light charge to a vehicle defect, which results in no points on my license. I suppose I probably could have had a pretty good case to fight all of this and have the whole thing expunged, but I just felt it was not worth the time or money. I accepted the vehicle defect ticket and the case is now closed. *****

This message has been edited. Last edited by: holdem,

I think continuing to drive 1.2-1.3 miles was a mistake. I might have immediately pulled over to the right as far as possible and let the policeman worry about safety.

The police actions after the stop do seem a bit excessive.

Mistakes likely made on both sides. Playing armchair quarterback won't gain much. Since you have sought legal council, I would leave it off the internet until resolved one way or the other. Best of luck.

I'm sure there is a "law" about how far you can drive after being signaled to stop, and another law about where and how to stop once signaled. I don't know how many LEOs or drivers know the details of these laws, but that just means there is plenty of ambiguity and leeway in interpretation and enforcement. Looks like you ended up at the far extreme of both. Kind of like legal tolerance stack.

quote:

Originally posted by Eponym:
I think continuing to drive 1.2-1.3 miles was a mistake. I might have immediately pulled over to the right as far as possible and let the policeman worry about safety.

Agreed. OP, you REALLY over thought this.

Having been pulled over for minor traffic violations a number of times, I would only delay for 10-15 seconds tops for a better place (basically slow down, with blinker on, but at a slower rate), but ONLY if the current location seems completely unsuitable. Then I would pull over / stop regardless and let the professional decide if he wants to conduct the traffic stop there or tell me to move.

Realize that the cop decided to initiate the stop; they could have easily followed you for another couple miles with the lights off, found a better place to conduct it, then hit the lights.

So the cop decided it was a good enough place, so let them do their job. Which is what I think you should have done, since you asked.

I like to find a safe place to pull over, but I wouldn't drive that far.

Best of luck.

Looks like Cedar Point to me and if that's the case, there is no really good place to pull over once you're on that stretch by the water.
I'm not saying you're wrong and they're right but I would have just stopped.
I've blocked a lane of traffic before and while not ideal, it had to be done because I didn't know the surrounding area.

Bad move on your part. Officer could of done a better job.

I have been in a similar situation while driving with my wife and kids. I rolled down my window and pointed to the right side of the road so the LEO knew that I knew I was being pulled over. When I found a place that was safe I pulled over. About two miles. The officer thanked me but then gave me a ticket for speeding I'm thinking 5 officers and a K-9 unit was probably a bit over the top, being arrested was way over the top IMHO. It will be interesting to see what the forum LEOs think about this.

Jurisdictional differences aside, a clean record and calm spirits should help tremendously. I think we all get what you were trying to do, but best to let the Trooper take point on safe locations. I guarantee he would have had no issue hopping on his PA system and giving you instructions to drive a bit farther had he wanted that.

Lawyer is a good call in any event. Were it me, I’d fall on the sword at court. But go with the advice of your local attorney. Good luck.

Was this in Canton?

Chances are, with your clean record, your lawyer will get this charge dismissed.
Let the lawyer do her job.
Next time: pull over quicker.

Nice thing is everyone kept their cool.

It will get sorted out in court.

I probably would have pulled over as far right as possible as soon as possible. 1+ mile is a long way to drive. They will typically 'make contact' and tell you to pull ahead to a known location.

But I wsn't there.

Correct call on the lawyer. It happens.

----------------

You may have driven a little far, but you certainly weren’t being evasive, me personally never would’ve cuffed you for that, maybe a money ticket, guy with wife, kids in car and no record.
Take it not a very busy jurisdiction, if I walked into booking with that arrest I’d have been eaten alive by the Patrol Supervisor and the Duty Supervisor, and spent quite a bit of time on foot patrol.

Follow your lawyers advice, how there’s no mention of the basis for the stop, red light violation is problematic.

Honestly if that cop worked where I did his shift brothers and sisters would have a chat, “like seriously guy with no record and family for that BS, and while your booking him we’re answering your jobs, that type of arrest would go over like a lead balloon in a busy house. If the cop was a whackadoodledoo, he’d get some peer motivation to knock the shit off.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: spunk639,

I understand your logic OP but personally I'd let the officer decided their own safety and just pull over. It's likely not their first rodeo and you driving a mile or two extra does seem to me to draw extra attention.

If they're uncomfortable carrying out the stop they can ask you to move. Another thought would be if you're going to do what you did would be to call 911 and let them know you're not fleeing.

You ran the light at 1st St. and Cedar Point Dr. There's plenty of room to pull over on the right hand side for 1,000 feet after the intersection. Once you reach the causeway though, there isn't a good place to pull over. I wouldn't have gone the posted speed limit, but I would have continued on. If you haven't been there before, you'd have no clue there wasn't a good place to pull over until the parking lot booths. The slight hills and turns prevent you from seeing what's ahead.

The officer claiming you were fleeing is full of it. Fleeing where? He knows the road and knows where it leads. Does the Suburban have tinted windows? Big SUVs with tinted windows and Florida plates are a favorite with out of state law enforcement.

I can't believe you were arrested over this. What was your demeanor during the encounter?

From what I just read, cop was a jerk in my opinion.

Buncha others have covered it already, but to the question about being arrested. You are under arrest when an officer tells you you are under arrest ORRRRR when it (the situation) becomes apparent that you are under arrest.

When he detained you, you were detained. Period. When he put you in the car. You were under arrest. Cops actually don’t have to tell you when you are under arrest nor do they have to read you Miranda rights, if they are not going to be asking incriminating questions. Asking for name, DOB, address is not the same.

But, I’d see a lawyer and see if it can be reduced or tossed out, based on there being no reason for the stop, if he did t charge you for the red light violation. Also, are you sure the redlight violation is not an arrestable offense in Fla. if it is then you can be arrested for it all day. Cops write tickets to stay on the street, arresting someone takes hours to deal with while tied up at the jail and not on the street to response to calls for service.

You both were wrong from the story given (though from my reading I see no need for an arrest but that does not equate to not being able to be arrested)
You don’t decide the safe place to pull over the officer does ALWAYS. You get lit up you pull it over ASAP.
One of the quickest ways to get officers amped up is not stopping your vehicle when instructed. Does not matter if you drive slow or put your flashers on the officer has no clue what is going on in the vehicle.

As for the officer sounds quite a bit over the top. Be interested to hear why he searched the vehicle.
Certainly no grounds for a search but possible grounds for a frisk.
Large distinction between the two.

If the story goes as written it would be dismissed here.

quote:

The officer claiming you were fleeing is full of it. Fleeing where?

Here at least statutorily all that is needed for fleeing is knowingly not stopping for an officer. Intent for not stopping does not matter or knowing where fleeing to is not needed for the charge.

The couple times I have been pulled over I stopped as soon as I could safely. I think it frustrates the officer the longer one drives. I put the window down and put my hands where they can be seen.