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Posts: 195 | Location: Salish | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by springnr:
Human Kinetics chart


Big Grin Thanks

Pretty funny, I used more descriptive words like "human kinetics rep range chart" etc. and it was throwing me way off. Even used the chart title.




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 3070 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Great article by a super heavy weight powerlifter, the health problems from being overweight, how he lost it and his performance after.

https://www.elitefts.com/educa.../keeping-my-promise/

Speaks to the "can you be overweight and fit/healthy?" question. Not really, not to any large extent...




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 3070 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
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Eat less, exercise more.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 44817 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by jhe888:
Eat less, exercise more.


That would be an over-simplified way to lose weight...but is not how to actually be fit.

What exercise? For what goals or attributes?




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 3070 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
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quote:
Originally posted by Strambo:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
Eat less, exercise more.


That would be an over-simplified way to lose weight...but is not how to actually be fit.

What exercise? For what goals or attributes?


I would argue that it would also make you more fit. It may not make you a body builder or a marathon runner, but you would be more generally fit.

And the OP said he didn't want fitness to be an all-consuming hobby in and of itself. So he doesn't want to be a body builder or a marathon runner.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 44817 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Strambo:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
Eat less, exercise more.


That would be an over-simplified way to lose weight...but is not how to actually be fit.

What exercise? For what goals or attributes?


Depends on what you consider fit, but from simply a health standpoint. Diet is 90% of it. Change your diet and eat healthy foods....and do 45 minutes of cardio 3-4 times a week and when you get to your ideal weight, you would be fit from a health standpoint......
 
Posts: 15430 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
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I agree about the diet, but cardio is really over rated when it comes to getting fit and healthy.

Weights is/are where it's at for true long term health benefit. (Especially if you're an older man or woman.)

Having extra muscle increases metabolism, raises testosterone, and bone density. Muscle also acts as metabolic insurance when you want to eat like crap for a bit.

Don't get me wrong, cardio is good, but only as a supplement to weight lifting. Cardio is best used after a solid weight lifting workout when glycogen stores are spent and you want to burn some fat.

Muscle burns fat 24/7...cardio burns some fat while you're doing it and can lead to muscle loss/catabolism. Most people who rely solely on cardio will yo-yo back to a shitty weight once they stop...and are actually "skinny fat".


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Posts: 4441 | Location: Philadelphia, Pa | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The whole point of the OP is to discuss physical fitness divorced from diet/weight loss and in specific terms, not generic ones.

45 mins of "cardio" may well help one achieve weight loss and general heart health...but it won't help you fight off an attacker (need anaerobic conditioning plus strength and strength-endurance) or move a heavy refrigerator for your wife (need coordinated strength of the prime movers, stabilizers, and core-can't be built with isolation weight routines).




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 3070 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Strambo:45 mins of "cardio" may well help one achieve weight loss and general heart health...but it won't help you fight off an attacker (need anaerobic conditioning plus strength and strength-endurance) or move a heavy refrigerator for your wife (need coordinated strength of the prime movers, stabilizers, and core-can't be built with isolation weight routines).


That actually makes a lot of sense. I've always thought that running just for the sake of doing so along with some other "gym exercises" like bench presses, aren't of much use in the real world. It sounds like what you are doing has some practical application, at least to the extent of injury prevention.
 
Posts: 6858 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
it's me.
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quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
quote:
Originally posted by Strambo:45 mins of "cardio" may well help one achieve weight loss and general heart health...but it won't help you fight off an attacker (need anaerobic conditioning plus strength and strength-endurance) or move a heavy refrigerator for your wife (need coordinated strength of the prime movers, stabilizers, and core-can't be built with isolation weight routines).


That actually makes a lot of sense. I've always thought that running just for the sake of doing so along with some other "gym exercises" like bench presses, aren't of much use in the real world. It sounds like what you are doing has some practical application, at least to the extent of injury prevention.


I think the best method is a sort of hybrid of aerobic and anaerobic. That's where things like HIIT and Crossfit come in.

Not sure what you mean by some "other "gym exercises" like bench presses, aren't of much use in the real world."

Heavy compound movements such as a bench press will work more than chest, tri's, shoulders, etc and will in fact lead to more muscle mass as well as help you do some useful things such as pushing things with force...


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Posts: 4441 | Location: Philadelphia, Pa | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
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Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press + some cardio + protein = power and fitness

The main problem is that people aren't consistent in their diet and exercise. It should be a lifestyle choice.

The other problem is that people, especially non-athlete don't push themselves enough physically, i.e. they either don't lift with the proper volume, or weight...or form.

People stop when it hurts. The trick is to keep going through the pain. You will come out bigger and stronger in the end.

The thing I always find humorous is weaklings, or plain old lazy asses saying that they don't lift because they don't want to get muscle bound. That's when I laugh and walk away.


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Posts: 4441 | Location: Philadelphia, Pa | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good post Ramius,

Lack of equipment or a gym is no excuse either. Sub the weighted squat, DL, and bench with body weight versions.

Working from easy variations towards a 1-leg squat (Pistol), strict form 1-arm push up, handstand push ups, pull ups working toward a 1-arm pull up, and back bridges.

I'd say the vast majority of males can't do 10 pull up or chin ups and a set of 30 push ups and 40 body weight squats. This should be a minimum standard to achieve to be considered at all "fit" IMO. Or better yet, successfully complete the "Century" This will also demonstrate some decent level of anaerobic conditioning due to the time standard.

https://pccblog.dragondoor.com/al-kavadlo-century/

Again, add in some anaerobic cardio and outcome = a functionally fit beast.

On one of those obstacle contest shows last night I saw a contestant do a 1 arm pull up on a rock climbing finger board. Insane functional upper body strength!

By way of context, I can do 15x dead hang pull ups. I can only hang from my finger board for about 20s with 2 hands, nevermind a 1 hand pull up!




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 3070 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by RAMIUS:Not sure what you mean by some "other "gym exercises" like bench presses, aren't of much use in the real world."

Heavy compound movements such as a bench press will work more than chest, tri's, shoulders, etc and will in fact lead to more muscle mass as well as help you do some useful things such as pushing things with force...


I know close to nothing about fitness compared to guys like you, but am willing to learn. It seems like the bench pressing heavy weights would most closely simulate pushing a car off your chest (or fighting with someone on the ground). Could be useful, but not frequently needed by most of us. In other situations where you are pushing, your body is not stabilized by a bench or the ground, so the force is limited by your ability to dig in and get friction with your feet.
 
Posts: 6858 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RAMIUS:
quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
quote:
Originally posted by Strambo:45 mins of "cardio" may well help one achieve weight loss and general heart health...but it won't help you fight off an attacker (need anaerobic conditioning plus strength and strength-endurance) or move a heavy refrigerator for your wife (need coordinated strength of the prime movers, stabilizers, and core-can't be built with isolation weight routines).


That actually makes a lot of sense. I've always thought that running just for the sake of doing so along with some other "gym exercises" like bench presses, aren't of much use in the real world. It sounds like what you are doing has some practical application, at least to the extent of injury prevention.


Not sure what you mean by some "other "gym exercises" like bench presses, aren't of much use in the real world."

Heavy compound movements such as a bench press will work more than chest, tri's, shoulders, etc and will in fact lead to more muscle mass as well as help you do some useful things such as pushing things with force...


I think bench is on the bubble of "functional," it does work multiple muscle groups and lets you move a lot of weight developing a lot of upper body pushing force. You are also really well stabilized laying on a bench and both hands locked into a single rigid bar. I don't have a problem with the exercise, but I think it is way over-emphasized in most male workout plans to the degree they (the people who do it too much) cause muscle imbalances and injuries.

Personally I prefer variations like dumb bell bench, dumb bell bench with upper back on a stability ball, and standing overhead presses. These emphasize even more core stability, get the lower body more involved (stab ball and standing versions) and work more stabilizers since each arm is working independently. They are also safer to do solo w/o a spotter needed.

The gym exercises that aren't "functional" at all IMO are the machines and anything isolating one muscle group. This results in a "collection of parts" that may look really good, buy can't function well as a unit.




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 3070 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I will be trudging into the gym this year after a short break (about 23 years Big Grin). My boys are 14 and 11 years old and very active in sports that I was once very good at. It pisses me off to be winded after a minute of one on one basketball. I will be 47 this year and it feel like now or never to stop the decline. At 6' 225 I need to shed about 30lbs of fat, build some strength and flexibility and increase endurance. I have plenty of time and access to a world class facility. I now have the motivation and the will to see it through. I just need a little know how and a plan. I hate "group fitness" and being put through the Bataan Death March 3 times a week by some 24 year old trainer is not happening.

I am taking these last few days of 2017 to eat like shit and wallow in self pity before paying the piper for the past two decades of eating what I want and sitting on my ass. I am pretty solid on the nutrition side but realize a lot has changed in exercise and that at my age and with my goals it shouldn't be anything like it was when I was 22 years old. I should be able to make it to the gym 3 times a week and have plenty of opportunities to be active with my kids in between.

So, what would be a good plan to start out. I think I need to start light and slow just to get everything accustomed to lifting again.


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Posts: 5646 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: June 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by TXJIM:
...
So, what would be a good plan to start out. I think I need to start light and slow just to get everything accustomed to lifting again.


See the example circuit in the OP. Just start with light weights and 1 min rest between "supersets". Use exercises that make sense with the gym space you have, but not the machines. Stick with body weight and free weight exercises.

A circuit like the example is a full body strength, strength-endurance, core and cardio all in one. Do a warm up of some joint mobility and a yoga or stretching cool down.




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

The world's a dangerous place, we can help! http://portlandfirearmtraining.com/
 
Posts: 3070 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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20/80. Exercise you do/what you eat.

You can however feel better, look better and be more fit if you simply work in some exercise on a regular schedule. Eating healthy (we all know what that means) will add to that.

If you've not been on a regular exercise routine then just think it needs to work up to be 4 times per week, with maybe letting it slip to 3 times every now and again if something comes up... just don't use that as an internal excuse not to work out just because you don't "feel like it" If you do that, soon it will be twice a week and then twice a month then nothing. It needs to become part of your life... like brushing your teeth or taking a shower. It's not fun, just something you do.

If you can join a gym, hire a personal trainer for a few sessions. You don't need to keep working out with them for and extended time, but have them teach you what you need to do.



Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.

-D.H. Lawrence
 
Posts: 9081 | Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’ve been on the workout wagon since the late 80s. Trial and error plus educating yourself goes a long way towards figuring out what’s right for you. After enough time you’ll learn to listen to your body and do what needs to be done. I don’t have a system or use any of the popular plans or fads. When I walk into the gym if I’m feeling energetic I’ll work harder. If I’m not feeling it I’ll do a little less.

Generally, compound movements are the most efficient (time wise) way to build overall strength/conditioning/etc. but isolation exercises and some machines have their place in a well rounded regimen. I’m 45 and there are certain movements my joints refuse to permit anymore. I’ve never been a fan of doing 1 rep max lifts. I’ve seen too many people get hurt testing their ego.
 
Posts: 10699 | Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA | Registered: October 16, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Strambo:
quote:
Originally posted by TXJIM:
...
So, what would be a good plan to start out. I think I need to start light and slow just to get everything accustomed to lifting again.


See the example circuit in the OP. Just start with light weights and 1 min rest between "supersets". Use exercises that make sense with the gym space you have, but not the machines. Stick with body weight and free weight exercises.

A circuit like the example is a full body strength, strength-endurance, core and cardio all in one. Do a warm up of some joint mobility and a yoga or stretching cool down.


We have the true stretch cages sprinkled around our club, are you familiar with these? Would this be a good way to stretch/cool down?


______________________________
“I'd like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living.”
― John Wayne
 
Posts: 5646 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: June 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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