I'm a retired LEO, and my advice to you if you are involved in a use of deadly force situation...CLAM UP!!! In some situations where it isn't self evident and the officers are probably going to book you, I'd at least state that you were claiming a self protection(or one of the other justifications afforded by Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code). Officers now are miced up so your words will be recorded.

Remember, using ANY force against anyone has to be justified -shooting a burglar, clubbing a mugger, whipping a child, etc.

quote:

A crucial point of the case that was promoted by the prosecutors was the defendant’s unwillingness to tell his side of the incident to the police at the scene so consequently he was guilty of the murders. This silence was promoted in the trial as proof of guilt by the prosecutors.

There must have been a lot more evidence than that. This is like saying that refusal to consent to a search is probable cause for a search.

I think Massad Ayoob's advice is the best. Just keep your shit together long enough to follow it.

quote:

Originally posted by P210:
After such a traumatic event you need to be evaluated for cardiac issues immediately and have an attorney present when the doctor gives the all clear and you’re no longer all pumped up.

This is consistent with the advice I have been given and would use. The line recommended: Officer, I am experiencing some physical issues and request transport to the emergency room for an evaluation. Say no more until after that evaluation and your lawyer has arrived.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Well, the truth is the truth, and if the truth is that I'm sitting in my living room and some thug I've never seen before kicks in my door and I shoot them, I fail to see the need to act like an automaton when the police show up, see my broken front door and some tatted-up felon bleeding out in my foyer.

I'm not engaged in a continuing criminal enterprise and the police won't find some drug stash in my home that the dead BG was after. I'm a realist, and to get all rigid and act like I need to consult with a lawyer rather than say "This guy broke in and I shot him. I've never seen him before in my life." is kinda silly. I know that not everyone lives in a state where citizens are allowed to defend themselves, but I do live in such a state, so...

I get it. But consider there are actually two aspects: 1) The police. This scenario would, in a rational world, not result in charges. So far, so good. 2) Civil suit "He was turning his life around and strayed just a little bit then this gun nut shot him for no reason. He could have just held him until the police got there, he didn't have to murder him." What you say to the police may clear you with the law but come back to bite you in the (inevitable) civil case. A lawyer will (should) frame the statement for both cases.

The example case in the op link is a twisted mess and it certainly isn't a clear case of self defense. Also, the conviction was overturned because silence can not be interpreted as guilt. IMO, staying silent actually saved that guy from jail.

As others have stated, it depends. But, if the circumstances aren't completely obvious, I wouldn't do much talking at all.

My lawyer explained that especially if it is just one officer then they will testify as to what you said and that can be 'remembered' wrong as well as their impression of how you said it.... maybe with todays technology that argument no longer works .... I think it just depends...

the one thing you have to keep in mind is you are most likely going to be very upset and disoriented ... the cops who are used to high stress situation are not.... so you are the one most likely to say something stupid or wrong...

For a while now my 'joke' has been that I'm going to be claiming pain in my chest and not feeling well and requesting an ambulance..... Since last April that is no longer a joke, believe me when your main Artery is completely stopped up you will know what I mean.....

Possibly, since we all carry smart phones now, just turn your voice recorder on and record what ever you say and the cops say to you....

I was at some good friends house last night and me and the guy had a conversation about this sort of... and he was pointing out that for the next several months you may be freaked out wondering what is legally going to happen.... he actually killed a guy a number of years ago that kicked in his front door and attacked him... this is not a macho gun loving guy but a regular 'family man' who you would never think had it in him... but he did for one reason... "He was not going to let that guy hurt his family"

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Well, the truth is the truth, and if the truth is that I'm sitting in my living room and some thug I've never seen before kicks in my door and I shoot them, I fail to see the need to act like an automaton when the police show up, see my broken front door and some tatted-up felon bleeding out in my foyer.

I'm not engaged in a continuing criminal enterprise and the police won't find some drug stash in my home that the dead BG was after. I'm a realist, and to get all rigid and act like I need to consult with a lawyer rather than say "This guy broke in and I shot him. I've never seen him before in my life." is kinda silly. I know that not everyone lives in a state where citizens are allowed to defend themselves, but I do live in such a state, so...

I agree 100% Also for the people that think the officer can twist or not remeber it correctly. I would suggest the short unadulterated facts to the 911 operator. Its then recorded and not open to a police officers possible bias!!

For people demading to be taken to the hospital. I think thats ridiculous and it happens with criminals all the time. So that would be a no unless I actually was having chest pains.

I wouldn't chat with the cops...about anything. Just ask for a lawyer. You can't be punished for speaking with an attorney before you answer their questions.

It feels like another life ago since I was a criminal defense attorney, but the circumstances in the OP are a bit light on details and could be misleading.

To be absolutely clear, prosecutors CANNOT introduce into evidence that you invoked a constitutional right.

Hence some others advised you to invoke your rights clearly.

Answering some questions, but not others...that stuff can bite you in the arse later.

I went to law school, I handled shooting cases. I’m probably more capable than anyone in this forum of handling my own statement to the police even being out of the game for 15 years.

Having said that, my response will be something similar to, “sir, I am so sorry, but I’m sure you’ll understand that I am invoking my right to have an attorney with me before I answer any questions. I’ll fully cooperate, I just want to have someone here with me. Thanks.”

If they cuff me, so be it. Just chill, you’ll be released very soon. It’s not like you don’t have hours and days of questions ahead of you anyways. You’ll only extend the process by the hour it takes an attorney to get to you.

I plan on saying that I'm worried about being sued,... lawsuits down the road,...so I'll decline on making a comment.

You can be totally innocent and in the right and they'll still try and destroy you in court.

V.

PA has its version of the Castle Doctrine that applies to home, workplace, vehicle, or walking down the street. A few years ago they removed the obligation that you must attempt to escape/retreat in cases of self defense. It also states that the perp or their family cannot sue you in civil court if the shooting was in self defense.

So if I'm in bed, or watching TV, and someone breaks through my door; then I can legally assume that they're NOT from Publisher's Clearing House, and they're NOT there to give me a big check.

They WILL get their asses shot, and my only conversation with the State Police when they arrive 1/2-3/4 hours later will be that, "I feared for my wife's and my life."; before I call a lawyer.

quote:

Originally posted by White Phosphorus:
I plan on saying that I'm worried about being sued,... lawsuits down the road,...so I'll decline on making a comment.

You can be totally innocent and in the right and they'll still try and destroy you in court.

V.

Having just killed a man, stating that one of your first thoughts after the incident is being worried about losing money in a lawsuit could be construed as:

1) Expressing feelings of guilt.
2) Lack of empathy or "normal" emotional response. i.e. You're a psychopath.
3) Basically anything else a gun-hating-leftist-prosecutor would like to convey to a jury.

I'm gonna go with the "less is best" crowd on this thread.

I’m retired LE, with some experience investigating OIS. If it’s a self defense in the home situation, I think it’s imperative that you get some facts on the record immediately such as it’s your residence, Mr. bad guy entered without your permission, was armed ( if that was the case) and that you were in fear of your life and that of your family. Definitely request to be taken for a medical evaluation. I have seen BP and pulses in young adult males dangerously high in the aftermath of a shooting. Finally, ask to speak to a lawyer, and make damn sure it’s one that does criminal defense, NOT your tax attorney. Ask your local cops who’d they get to represent them in a shooting. That’s the guy you want.

Something else to consider is this: The average law-abiding citizen does not normally carry a criminal defense attorney's card in his wallet. I wouldn't have a clue who to call if I was involved is this event.

Might be a good idea to do some research and at least speak to a lawyer before something bad happens, especially if you are a CCW holder. Get his card and if possible his cell number and keep it with you.

Tim

Our CCW instructor said to reply "I feared for my life and I shot to stop the threat." I think I would probably want to get to the ER too as I am a heart patient with a defibrillator. Don't really want that puppy going off (or so I'm told).

Anything you do at a scene can be spun for either a criminal or civil trial. If you are calm and collected, you are obviously a cold blooded sociopath (hmm, just how many people have you killed?). If you are scared, sweating, and hyperventilating; you are obviously an out of control paranoid who shot for no reason.

Me: First, I hope that I was the one who called 911 so the correct information is given to cops and ambulance. Once cops on scene I would probably go with a very very brief public safety statement (no questions answered until my attorney is present): which directions shot went (suspects and mine, how many and emphasis only an approximate number), identify any witnesses (good witnesses, hopefully surveillance cameras), identify any other suspects and descriptions, point out suspect's weapon; by hell or high water, it ain't leaving the scene until the cops get there and secure it.

A) I doubt there’s a lawyer on this forum who will tell you talking, without counsel, is a good idea.

B) My question for the LEOs, do officers in your department talk with investigators right after a shooting, or do they wait until they have legal counsel/union rep, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
A) I doubt there’s a lawyer on this forum who will tell you talking, without counsel, is a good idea.

This is not legal advise, but if I just shot an armed intruder that kicked in my back french doors at 2am, I would tell the police whatever they wanted to know.

On the other hand if it is my brother in law that is dead on the ground and the only bullet hole is in the back of this head, or if the "armed intruder" is 13 and is dead across the street from my house......5th!

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
A) I doubt there’s a lawyer on this forum who will tell you talking, without counsel, is a good idea.

B) My question for the LEOs, do officers in your department talk with investigators right after a shooting, or do they wait until they have legal counsel/union rep, etc.

On B) LEOS usually have to give a public safety statement with basic information on what I posted above.

Well there are legal "services" programs who actually provide you with a card with "emergency" number to call immediately following an incident involving deadly force (shooting or other weapons), not trying to push these as they are not free, but if anyone is the type to worry about situations like these maybe something to consider.

I hope to never be placed in a SD situation, but can only imagine trying figure out the "appropriate" response under extreme stress is real dicey, being its a "highly" emotional situation would think one would probably make decisions based on what feels right (gut feeling) with no time to calm down to think things through...not a great situation.