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If you're gonna be a
bear, be a Grizzly!
Picture of Todd Huffman
posted
I don't know if this pilot was lucky or just plain good, but this looked to me like damn near a catastrophe. Pilots?

Don't know how to embed, so here's the link:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=trrUkKUyhl4




Here's to the sunny slopes of long ago.
 
Posts: 2756 | Location: Morganton, NC | Registered: December 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of downtownv
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd Huffman:
I don't know if this pilot was lucky or just plain good, but this looked to me like damn near a catastrophe. Pilots?


___________________________
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Posts: 4938 | Location: 18 miles long, 6 Miles at Sea | Registered: January 22, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
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Every approach can be a be a catastrophe.

You know it was an exciting approach and landing when, after you roll to a stop, still on the runway, the tower asks you if you require assistance.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 42616 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Membership has its privileges
Picture of P-220
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Buy that man a Michelob!


Niech Zyje P-220

Steve
 
Posts: 34109 | Location: 45174 | Registered: December 09, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of JJexp
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That guy needs to be fired. And stripped of his certifications.

What that amounts to is nothing more than poor technique, as it doesn’t look that gusty and should have posed no challenge as it’s nothing more than a crosswind landing.

On the initial balked landing, it almost looks like the guy panics and dives for the runway, probably because he thinks he’s lower than he actually is. He also applied no crosswind correction whatsoever, and on the go around they failed to retract the landing gear.

The second attempt wasn’t any better, because again there is zero crosswind correction.

In an airplane with low slung engines, there are two techniques that can be used to align the aircraft with the runway while avoiding scraping the engines.

In the first, as you roll into the flare just a few feet above the runway, you apply rudder to align the nose while simultaneously lowering the upwind wing. The result is he would have touched down on the left main first, then the right while continuing to feed it more aileron into the wind.

The second method is easier for dumb pilots, but is less preferred because it side loads the gear, but will still work. You can touch down in a crab, like he does, but with the nose still in the air you have to apply right rudder to align the aircraft with the runway, and must still feed in aileron in the direction of the wind. This will keep the airplane straight, and keep the upwind wing from lifting and the airplane from weathervaning on very windy days.

Using the first technique, I’ve personally landed in a 40 knot, 90 degree crosswind with very little drama.

Unfortunately, these guys did neither of these things, nor did they flare. In all actuality that airplane probably required a hard landing inspection at the very least.

These sorts of things are the reason I won’t, and won’t allow any of my loved ones to ride on a foreign carrier. Their training and techniques just aren’t up to our standards a lot of the time.
 
Posts: 226 | Location: Hatboro, PA | Registered: May 25, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The crosswind as reported in the video was not excessive, but was gusting. The field has interference from surface obstacles and vegetation, leading to additional turbulent conditions close to the surface.

Clearly in the video the crew applied crosswind correction. In the first approach, a rapid sink rate developed close to the runway. A go-around was initiated, and it appears that during this process the landing gear made contact with the runway.

The second approach and landing appeared uneventful.
 
Posts: 1337 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of JJexp
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Clearly in the video the crew applied crosswind correction. In the first approach, a rapid sink rate developed close to the runway.


Good point, they also failed to apply a suitable increase to Ref to account for the gust. Even watching the video frame by frame, there doesn’t appear to be any crosswind correction at all. The only hint of rudder movement is the slight left deflection of the nose wheel.
 
Posts: 226 | Location: Hatboro, PA | Registered: May 25, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
Picture of Sig2340
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
Every approach can be a be a catastrophe.

You know it was an exciting approach and landing when, after you roll to a stop, still on the runway, the tower asks you if you require assistance


of the Jaws of Life getting your ass to release the seat.



Nice is overrated

And people wonder why I carry a SIG P320

Death to Terrorists
 
Posts: 25888 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
On the DL
Picture of V-Tail
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Per the caption at the beginning, runway 6, wind 360 @ 13 kts.

The direct crosswind component with the wind 60 degrees off the nose would be 11.25 kts. That's not a lot for a 737. Per the POH for the V-Tail, the demonstrated crosswind during certification for the Bonanza is 17 kts, and we have landed safely with more than that (DrDan was on board for one such instance, returning from a visit to Jeff Yarchin, when we landed with a 22 kt crosswind component).



A mind is a terrible thing.
 
Posts: 15996 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JJexp:

Good point, they also failed to apply a suitable increase to Ref to account for the gust. Even watching the video frame by frame, there doesn’t appear to be any crosswind correction at all. The only hint of rudder movement is the slight left deflection of the nose wheel.


It is impossible to tell from the video what ref speed was calculated, what the aircraft weight was, what correction or addition was made to ref, and very clearly the aircraft was being flown crabbed into the wind for the approach. Crosswind correction was not the issue at all.

An approach which became unstabilized with an increasing sin rate and from which the crew properly executed a go-around is what's seen in the video.

quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
Per the caption at the beginning, runway 6, wind 360 @ 13 kts.

The direct crosswind component with the wind 60 degrees off the nose would be 11.25 kts. That's not a lot for a 737. Per the POH for the V-Tail, the demonstrated crosswind during certification for the Bonanza is 17 kts, and we have landed safely with more than that (DrDan was on board for one such instance, returning from a visit to Jeff Yarchin, when we landed with a 22 kt crosswind component).


Your bonanza is not a swept wing aircraft, nor does it have underslung engines.

Demonstrated crosswind is exactly as it sounds. Crosswind in a multi engine airplane is not the same as a single engine airplane, and an approach in a transport category airplane is different than flying the approach in a light single.

The wind velocity in the video is stated as 13 knots, gusting 26. Watch the video again. The sustained crosswind isn't so much the issue as is the gust factor.
 
Posts: 1337 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
On the DL
Picture of V-Tail
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by JJexp:

Good point, they also failed to apply a suitable increase to Ref to account for the gust. Even watching the video frame by frame, there doesn’t appear to be any crosswind correction at all. The only hint of rudder movement is the slight left deflection of the nose wheel.
It is impossible to tell from the video what ref speed was calculated, what the aircraft weight was, what correction or addition was made to ref, and very clearly the aircraft was being flown crabbed into the wind for the approach. Crosswind correction was not the issue at all.

An approach which became unstabilized with an increasing sin rate and from which the crew properly executed a go-around is what's seen in the video.
quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
Per the caption at the beginning, runway 6, wind 360 @ 13 kts.

The direct crosswind component with the wind 60 degrees off the nose would be 11.25 kts. That's not a lot for a 737. Per the POH for the V-Tail, the demonstrated crosswind during certification for the Bonanza is 17 kts, and we have landed safely with more than that (DrDan was on board for one such instance, returning from a visit to Jeff Yarchin, when we landed with a 22 kt crosswind component).
Your bonanza is not a swept wing aircraft, nor does it have underslung engines.

Demonstrated crosswind is exactly as it sounds. Crosswind in a multi engine airplane is not the same as a single engine airplane, and an approach in a transport category airplane is different than flying the approach in a light single.

The wind velocity in the video is stated as 13 knots, gusting 26. Watch the video again. The sustained crosswind isn't so much the issue as is the gust factor.
My error. I missed the gust factor. Watched the video late at night (early in the morning?) sound muted, so as not to disturb my sleeping wife. Yes, 13 gusting to 26 puts it in a different light. Shifting / gusting winds are very different from steady winds.



A mind is a terrible thing.
 
Posts: 15996 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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