If three guys are in a car shooting at people, and they end up killing someone.

can all three in the car be charged with murder , even if they did not load/hold/shoot/aim the gun?

or does one guy get the murder charge and the other to get lesser accessory charges?

Yes, they can all be charged with murder if they're all participating in the overall crime. It's not the law everywhere though.

Like if someone robs a liquor store, and the store clerk ends up dead, the guy in the getaway car could be charged with murder. Or if the clerk greases the robber, then too could the driver be charged.

I'm not a lawyer and didn't sleep at a Holiday in last night and i believe it may vary by jurisdiction but I believe that all three would be guilty of murder.

I'm guessing - Yes...accessory to crime.

It's the felony murder rule.

When I did my undergrad at the University of Illinois at Chicago, I was told by a assistant states attorney who was our professor that Illinois does have the felony murder rule.

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
...... Or if the clerk greases the robber, then too could the driver be charged.

I love a double happy ending.

In Georgia, yes.

If someone dies during the commission of a felony, the parties can all be charged with murder.

Even, say, if two guys burgle a house and the home owner shoots and kills one of them, the other burglar can be charged with murder.

quote:

am I watching too much tv?

This,

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
If three guys are in a car shooting at people, and they end up killing someone.

can all three in the car be charged with murder , even if they did not load/hold/shoot/aim the gun?

Yes, Felony Murder rule, if applicable.

quote:

or does one guy get the murder charge and the other to get lesser accessory charges?

I guess that depends on the DA and what options are available locally. Sometimes getting a felony murder conviction is easier than proving something else.

There is a case locally (Oregon) where a guy broke into a house that belonged to his ex-wife's father and mother. His stated intention was to threaten the ex-wife, who he thought would be in the house; she wasn't. He brought a handgun with him when he broke in. After breaking in (ex-wife was not home), he committed a burglary by stealing another handgun from inside the house.

He shot his former father-in-law in the head using both handguns, killing the victim. He also shot the former-mother-in-law, but did not kill her.

At trial, he was charged with felony murder because Oregon allows the DA to charge felony murder if a murder occurs in the commission of a certain list of crimes (burglary is one on that list). He was convicted at trial.

On appeal, the defendant argued that the DA should have had to prove first degree murder (which would have been harder).

The Oregon Supreme Court ruled that the DA did not have to ignore the burglary (stealing the gun) and go for the bigger murder in the first degree charge. The Court held that the DA could simply prove that 1) the defendant committed a burglary, 2) a homicide occurred during the commission of that burglary (and the burglary was the proximate cause, yada yada). It's a much easier conviction to prove than first degree murder which would have required the DA to address the defendant's mental state, including whether he brought the first gun to commit murder or just to scare the ex-wife, like the defendant claims.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
If three guys are in a car shooting at people, and they end up killing someone.

can all three in the car be charged with murder , even if they did not load/hold/shoot/aim the gun?

Yup. Hell, a guy driving the get-away vehicle in a robbery gone bad can be tried for murder. Been this way for years and years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule

It is an interesting a complicated legal topic.

Bendable's hypothetical doesn't tell you quite enough, but the felony murder rule can make participants in a felony who didn't do the actual killing guilty of murder if someone is killed during the commission of the crime. As usual with legal questions, there are a lot of factors at play, exceptions, etc.

They don't even have to know what is going on. Happened here back in the '80's in the panhandle of Fla. Driver had no idea the other 2 or 3 (don't remember which) were doing in the store. Not only robbery but also murdered the clerk. All were guilty of felony murder and went to prison.

Had one in Florida, Cape Coral I believe, where the officer shot and killed the driver and the two other people in the car were charged with murder.

As my fellow barrister points out, it’s a complicated topic.


For example, let’s say a felony is committed, and then, while the suspects are running from the police, two otherwise uninvolved cars are trying to get out of the way and get into an accident and someone in that car is killed. Should the suspects be now charged with felony murder?

There are other examples, like an elderly person having a heart attack while a bank robbery is committed.

In these examples, the suspect generally completely lacks the mens rea to commit homicide. In the drive by shooting example, all 3 intend to commit murder, there is just one trigger person. In a strictly felony murder jurisdiction, all of the people in the examples discussed could be charged with felony murder

It’s an interesting, mostly American, legal quandary

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule

It is an interesting a complicated legal topic.

Bendable's hypothetical doesn't tell you quite enough, but the felony murder rule can make participants in a felony who didn't do the actual killing guilty of murder if someone is killed during the commission of the crime. As usual with legal questions, there are a lot of factors at play, exceptions, etc.

Yes, Felony Murder Rule aka Murder 2nd Degree (someone is killed during the commission of a felony where there was a likelihood/possibility of someone being killed).

Unfortunately, lots of the recently elected Soros' sponsored SJW Prosecuting Attorneys who are believers in the whole "mass incarceration" ideology aren't charging accessories in these types of incidents anymore. See Chicago and St. Louis City, several recent incidents where suspects should have been charged but weren't.

In Missouri they apply "acting in concert" to groups where some in the group commit felonies.

Back in high school I took on 5 guys after two of them started assaulting a female. All of them were involved to different degrees but they all came as a group, committed crimes as a group, and left together as a group.

All 5 of them were charged with the exact same list of crimes regardless of whether each individually committed it.

In California all three would be charged the same (murder).

If I recall, if you were on the street and defended yourself by returning fire thereby killing one of the passengers, the other surviving two would be charged with murder regardless if the shot was justified.

thanks,
for taking the time