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KDSS -- Okay to drop as criteria in my case? Login/Join 
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Picture of konata88
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I'm still trying to figure out which 4Runner model to buy.

As far as I can tell, the biggest functional difference between SR5 4x4 and TRD (any of Pro, Off-Road, Off-Road Premium) is the KDSS suspension option (actually, not available on the TRD Pro either).

The only other perhaps meaningful difference is the CRAWL locking diff feature on the TRDs and the Downhill Assist on the SR5).

Again, I'm not planning to go anywhere where people should generally take lessons first. No rock climbing.

Trails and fire roads that may not be smooth and/or may be soft terrain (sand/mud/snow) that are somewhat popular and where it would be common to see others at least once in awhile.

Places perhaps like those mentioned in the southeast corner of OR off 395. Mono Lake area. Popular rivers, lakes and beaches to drop off kayaks.

For my relatively novice usages (at least intended for now), I'm thinking I don't need KDSS or CRAWL. It seems like KDSS is also useful for highway stability but I could probably do without.

If I drop KDSS/CRAWL, then I think my used selection availability becomes more expansive and cheaper. I think I'm also more comfortable that the vehicle would not have been subjected to aggressive off-road use (and hidden damage); probably just soccer moms on the highway.

Okay to drop? Or should I future proof and stick with TRD Off-Road models?




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 6070 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
All the time
Picture of Gear.Up
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I have a Trail Premium with KDSS. It give some benefits but can be troublesome if you're adding aftermarket suspensions, skid plates, etc. Both of which I've done.

I wouldn't recommend the Pro; save the money and upgrade suspension if that's what you're looking for.

If you want the extended travel and anti-roll benefits of KDSS, it's worth it. Try to drive one with and one without to see if the difference matters to you.

Here's a good video explaining KDSS.




Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLF6n3nMwww

Let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to answer.
 
Posts: 2106 | Location: East TN | Registered: July 28, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ice age heat wave,
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Picture of MikeGLI
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I have a 2017 TRD Off Road Premium without KDSS. I'll be adding skid plates one day but I didn't see the benefit of the KDSS so I opted to save a few bucks.

Crawl control will come with almost any 4WD version of the 4runner, won't it?




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Posts: 7878 | Location: Orlando, Florida | Registered: July 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of konata88
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Not an expert but I think Crawl is only available for TRD versions, not the SR5 (which would come only with A trac traction control).

So I think SR5 does not have locking diff capability - deal breaker?




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 6070 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would certainly want some sort of limited slip axle. If your off roading plans include low traction I would insist on it. If you think you'll have a tire in the air I'd insist on it.

However if your thinking gravel, with some washout areas that would ruin a car, you'll likely be fine.

Electronic traction control should not be confused with limited slip. The time to decide if you need 1, 2, 3, or 4 driven wheels is now. Understand that 4 is very nearly impossible to spec from the factory.


----------The weather is here I wish you were beautiful----------
 
Posts: 4008 | Location: southern Mn | Registered: February 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I recently went from a 2015 Trail (now TRD OffRoad) to a 2017 Limited Edition. I gave up the crawl (never used it) and the locking rear differential (low range only so really not that useful to me). The rear limited slip does work well on slippery stuff. I did not dislike the Trail at all but wanted to get away from the black dirt magnet paint. I went to Blizzard Pearl white and am quite happy.
Most of the features of the Trail were so seldom used that I chose to have more amenities. I have 4WD primarily because we can get elephant butt deep snow here in Iowa at times and I do Red Cross Disaster Relief locally. The LE has full time 4WD with Atrac and seems even more stable than the Trail in the wet. I have not had it in snow yet but am sure it will do just fine for my purposes. LE's use a different suspension called XREAS and it does seem more stable in turns and heavy braking than the Trail was. The SR5 will lock the transfer case front to rear as do all the 4WD but does not have the limited slip and locking diff of the TRD Offroad. I actually found the Atrac to work very well on the Trail and will put it to the test this winter on the LE.
If you are considering used you might include the LE in your search, it has a better audio system, leather (not Pleather) seating and several other upgrades. It does not have the body clearance the Offroad Editions have and truthfully I do like the front end treatment on those better than the LE or the SR5, but that is a personal thing. You are also more likely to find a LE that was not used much offload which may be an advantage.
If the truck has 3" or more lift. 34" tires, roof rack, a gazzilion watts of lighting, scarred up skid plates and sliders you might want to steer clear if you are concerned about having been off road. Having those things there may save you money adding them later but it may have seen things that were not good for longetivity.


A poor widows son.

 
Posts: 1975 | Location: See der Rabbits, Iowa | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh yes, take a bit of time to go to:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/
and look around a while. You might even find the vehicle you want for sale there.
As far as the Limited Edition not being as offload capable as the others, take a look at Migueons (SP) rig to dispel that notion. In the 5th Gen header there are several threads you may want to look over.


A poor widows son.

 
Posts: 1975 | Location: See der Rabbits, Iowa | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Honor and Integrity
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I was asking the same questions when I was in the market for a used 4Runner. The SR5 would have been fine for my needs. Adding good AT tires and installing some quality Bilsteins, would make for a formable 4Runner. I just had to find that perfect color.

One weekend I drove through a BMW dealership, and there sat a 2012 Magnetic Grey Trail Edition w/KDSS that someone traded-in. A week later it came home with me. It's more vehicle than I'll ever use, but I couldn't pass on the price.
 
Posts: 1827 | Location: Fitchburg, WI | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jack of All Trades,
Master of Nothing
Picture of 2000Z-71
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Wife has an SR5 4wd, at the time I really wanted her to get the Trail edition that we test drove that had the optional KDSS system. She passed not wanting to spend the extra money.

To me the KDSS provided better ride and handling around town. Way less body lean when cornering. I haven't driven the KDSS off road, but we have with my wife's. Schnebley Hill Road is the back way into Sedona from Flagstaff. It's a mild Jeep trail with only a couple of technical obstacles. The problem is, it's rough and rocky. In 4 Lo and 1st or 2nd gear we got rocked and bounced around to the point that it was not fun. I wonder if the ride would have been different with the KDSS system. I've done that road before in my F-150 and our former Nissan Xterra and did not have the same issues.

In the Trail and now the TRD Off Road trims also come with the electronic locking rear differential rather than the A-Trac system which distributes torque by braking individual wheels. The locking rear diff provides significantly more traction than A-Trac.

Other than the rough ride down Schnebley Hill, the only complaint with have with the 4Runner is the enTune system for the navigation and radio. It randomly goes black and reboots itself shutting off the radio and navigation. Not a regular occurrence, sometimes it won't happen for 2-3 months, other times it happens 3-4 times in one day. Especially annoying when relying on navigation to get us somewhere where we haven't been. We've mentioned it several times to the service writers at the dealership. Response has ranged from, "Huh, never heard of that." to "It didn't do it while we had it so we can't fix it."

If you're planning on it as a daily driver as well as doing some off roading with it, I'd recommend trying to find a Trail of TRD Off Road with the KDSS system. Go to a dealer and test drive both to get a feel for it.




My daughter can deflate your daughter's soccer ball.
 
Posts: 9653 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: September 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a 2013 SR5 4x4, has been great for all of my needs. As others have mentioned, the body lean is a little more than I want, but I'm close to replacing my shocks anyway and Bilstein 5100's correct that issue nicely. I've been more than happy with mine, especially in a few more months when the last payment hits the books.
 
Posts: 1265 | Location: Raleigh, NC | Registered: March 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Cupcake
Picture of Chipster
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We've had a '14 Trail and now a '16 Trail Premium and haven't had any need for for KDSS. We live in Indiana and don't run any rock trails but do run the fields and such around here fairly regularly. If it's any help my 5'0" 110lb wife loves it and drives it as her every day ride. Something about the Trail that she loves!


Chip
 
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Ice age heat wave,
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Picture of MikeGLI
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Just don't forget to upgrade your fogs Big Grin





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Posts: 7878 | Location: Orlando, Florida | Registered: July 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
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If you will be in a ranch much etc crawl is great. It's basically a hand throttle, if it's the same feature I'm thinking of on my old FJ
 
Posts: 3362 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of konata88
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Appreciate all the inputs guys!

It sounds like I could do w/out the KDSS and locking diff although there may be some off-road situations where I could benefit from it. (again, in the context of technical situations I'd approach, not off-roaders in general). For me, it still sounds like KDSS is mostly beneficial for highway stability rather than for off-road benefits.

I can see situations where traction may be low -- so perhaps locking diff is good to have. Don't really see myself having a tire in the air though. At least not intentionally Smile

I may want to add some lift to stock height so that may make non-KDSS desirable. But not sure.

So, I guess I'm at:
1) Don't really need KDSS for off-road but may be nice for highway stability. May make suspension lift more challenging.
2) SR5 A-trac may be sufficient for low traction / snow conditions. But TRD with locking differential may be advised.

I'll keep TRD w/ locking diff on the table unless I really can't find one at a reasonable price and fall back to SR5. KDSS - I'll take it or leave it depending on what's available (not sure how common it will be in the used market). Won't search for it but will take it / pay for it if I find a truck I like.




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 6070 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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