quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
A perfectly natural thing to do.

Only if you want an officer to draw down on you

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
A perfectly natural thing to do.

Only if you want an officer to draw down on you

Well, it is a natural act. Someone you're waiting for drives by you so you instinctively run after them and try to get their attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
A perfectly natural thing to do.

Only if you want an officer to draw down on you

Well, it is a natural act. Someone you're waiting for drives by you so you instinctively run after them and try to get their attention.

So is drawing your gun, when you're driving down a dark alley with the danger of it being an ambush and, without warning, hear a loud banging noise against your vehicle

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
A perfectly natural thing to do.

Only if you want an officer to draw down on you

Well, it is a natural act. Someone you're waiting for drives by you so you instinctively run after them and try to get their attention.

So is drawing your gun, when you're driving down a dark alley with the danger of it being an ambush and, without warning, hear a loud banging noise against your vehicle

But there's the rub. Jane Q. Public shouldn't have to be an expert in the psychology of police officers responding to a call and be prescient enough to frame their actions from that point of view to avoid getting killed by the cops.

So is answering the door with your gun at 11:30 pm when strangers come knocking.

Also, people slap taxi trunks and windows all the damn time in just about every big-ish city I've ever been in, or delivery vehicles in alleyways, and so on. It's not a rare thing. An attention getting tap or slap is perfectly normal and common in a great many places.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
So is answering the door with your gun at 11:30 pm when strangers come knocking.

Also, people slap taxi trunks and windows all the damn time in just about every big-ish city I've ever been in, or delivery vehicles in alleyways, and so on. It's not a rare thing. An attention getting tap or slap is perfectly normal and common in a great many places.

But you forget you are discussing two cops with less than two years of experience on the job....

Here's my take.

if you think it's gonna be an ambush, stop, get out approach from another angle with lots of your friends who bring their guns too, get some rifles....

I think the story was written to fit the facts by the lawyer....

And I think the guys drove right by the caller who got into a tiff and ran after them, slapped the car to try and get them to stop and got shot, by an amped up rookie who didn't have the sense to approach the "ambush" differently...

Was the woman wrong, nope-she was doing what callers do...trying to point the cops in the right direction to solving their problems.

The reaction was the wrong; but the cops bright line when shooting is the they be in fear of their life or that of another....they don't have to get shot at first or see a gun first - but just be in fear....

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
but just be in fear....

Being in fear isn’t sufficient. It must be a reasonable fear of death or serious injury based on the facts and circumstances. That seems unlikely at this point, but there’s still not enough information available to the public to know whether that was the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:....The reaction was the wrong; but the cops bright line when shooting is the they be in fear of their life or that of another....they don't have to get shot at first or see a gun first - but just be in fear....

So anytime, every time, a policeman shoots/kills an innocent person, all he has to do is say "I was afraid", and it's OK??

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
So anytime, every time, a policeman shoots/kills an innocent person, all he has to do is say "I was afraid", and it's OK??

No, it’s not, and that doesn’t just apply to killing an innocent person; it applies in every situation. The fear must be reasonable and capable of being explained in an objective manner.

[Ridiculousness]

Maybe the next time I see a cop with a gun, I should just shoot him. After all, he has a gun and may shoot me. I would be in fear of my life, after all.

[/Ridiculousness]

If citizens behaved the same way as this officer, in constant fear of ambush, being harmed, and ready to use deadly force at the drop of a hat, it would be a homicide that would put the man/woman in the pokey post hast.

Why is Mr. Noor still walking around free?

H&K-Guy

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Send his ass back to where he came from, where the police do shit like this every day. He'll fit right in. We don't want him or need him.

You can take the man out of the Third World, but you cannot take the Third World out of the man, and that's why this innocent woman is dead- because he comes from a place where the murder of the innocent is routine. Think I'm kidding? I am as serious as I can be. Get him out of here and send him back to the place that's obviously shaped his view of the world- Shitholia. He can murder as many people as he likes in that place. No one will notice, nor do anything about it if they did notice.

I am totally in favor of this. Why end up supporting the asshole for the rest of his life if they actually put him in jail? They won't, of course.

quote:

Shitholia. Nice. About sums it up. Some people don't like Michael Savage, but he has always said that a country is made up of "language, culture, and borders". I agree with that statement. We have different subcultures in the US of A, and they're certainly different, but they love being Americans. Shitheads from shitholias don't. We shouldn't be letting in anyone who's not completely sold on America, her Constitution, and our way of life. Period. Overly simplified ? I don't think so.

We should actually go back a few decades to the time when immigrants to this country were actually checked out before they got here, and we didn't end up with all that euro-trash, afri-trash, not to mention that coming from south of our national border.

quote:

Originally posted by H&K-Guy:
Why is Mr. Noor still walking around free?

Um …. Maybe because of a pesky thing called “due process”—?
And even perhaps because the people who have the authority to make such decisions believe that it’s important to have all the facts before deciding what’s appropriate—?

I know those are difficult concepts, but they do apply to everyone, not just the people we like.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by H&K-Guy:
Why is Mr. Noor still walking around free?

Um …. Maybe because of a pesky thing called “due process”—?
And even perhaps because the people who have the authority to make such decisions believe that it’s important to have all the facts before deciding what’s appropriate—?

I know those are difficult concepts, but they do apply to everyone, not just the people we like.

Well, IANAL, but it seems there is PC, and maybe even reasonable suspicion to believe a murder occurred. In the very least, a homicide. If I shot someone dead, would I be walking around free? Somehow I don't think that would happen. Due process or no.

H&K-Guy

quote:

Originally posted by H&K-Guy:
If I shot someone dead, would I be walking around free? Somehow I don't think that would happen. Due process or no.

So … because something wrong might happen to you, it’s all right if it does happen to someone else—? Gotcha.

Keep in mind that I’m not suggesting that however Noor is being treated is appropriate, only that because we don’t know all the facts of the case, it’s possible the people who have responsibility for making the decisions believe it’s appropriate to not rush to immediate judgment. But thanks for explaining the basis for your position. I’ll go back and remind myself of something I posted earlier so I’m not tempted to forget it if I ever find myself in a situation like this.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:....The reaction was the wrong; but the cops bright line when shooting is the they be in fear of their life or that of another....they don't have to get shot at first or see a gun first - but just be in fear....

So anytime, every time, a policeman shoots/kills an innocent person, all he has to do is say "I was afraid", and it's OK??

That certainly appears to be the case.

Is Noor still on offical leave, meaning getting paid? Since he is not making any statements he should be terminated immediately.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by H&K-Guy:
If I shot someone dead, would I be walking around free? Somehow I don't think that would happen. Due process or no.

So … because something wrong might happen to you, it’s all right if it does happen to someone else—? Gotcha.

Keep in mind that I’m not suggesting that however Noor is being treated is appropriate, only that because we don’t know all the facts of the case, it’s possible the people who have responsibility for making the decisions believe it’s appropriate to not rush to immediate judgment. But thanks for explaining the basis for your position. I’ll go back and remind myself of something I posted earlier so I’m not tempted to forget it if I ever find myself in a situation like this.

Well, I certainly appreciate your position. You have made sense in many of your posts, and I thank you for that.

I'm not going to speculate any further than I already have.

It just seems strange to me that a person can take the life of another, and not be locked up, or charged with the suspicion of a crime. But then I'm a Computer Systems Engineer, and not a cop. So what do I know.

An innocent woman is dead. It seems there should be some immediate accountability of some sort.

H&K-Guy

I was surprised that the search warrant gave long times for "estimated completion date":

Crime scene team 8/15/2017

Digital Multimedia evidence 1/12/2018

Firearms 11/13/2017

Latent prints 10/14/2017

Nuclear DNA 11/13/2017

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
Is Noor still on offical leave, meaning getting paid? Since he is not making any statements he should be terminated immediately.

I have thought the same thing.

There must me some weird cop union thing going on.

That's why I think they should fire him 'for cause' and treat him like another citizen.

---------------------------------------------------