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Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
Does anyone know the basis of the phrase "in the state of Texas, (or wherever), speeding is not a reason to stop me"? I've heard in used numerous times by these nut jobs, and it seems to be one of their common beliefs.


You don't want to hear one of them explain it. It makes no sense. They use English words, but they literally don't make sense the way they string them together. They spout a lot of made up crap about how the government is illegitimate, and they, as humans (or free men) are not the same as the person the state recognizes the existence of.

But don't trouble yourself with their explanations. They have no basis in fact or law, and are, quite literally gibberish.

I've heard the explanations, and you can't keep them in your head because they are nonsense.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 45265 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Keystoner:
They're about as stupid as the wack jobs who think there is no law requiring federal taxes.


Those are very often the same whackjobs.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 45265 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
Picture of SgtGold
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
Does anyone know the basis of the phrase "in the state of Texas, (or wherever), speeding is not a reason to stop me"? I've heard in used numerous times by these nut jobs, and it seems to be one of their common beliefs.


You don't want to hear one of them explain it. It makes no sense. They use English words, but they literally don't make sense the way they string them together. They spout a lot of made up crap about how the government is illegitimate, and they, as humans (or free men) are not the same as the person the state recognizes the existence of.

But don't trouble yourself with their explanations. They have no basis in fact or law, and are, quite literally gibberish.

I've heard the explanations, and you can't keep them in your head because they are nonsense.


That's kinda what I thought given their fascination with misusing terms like joinder and admiralty law.


_____________________________
'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.

 
Posts: 5654 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by synthplayer:


My question is where did this BS originate? Exactly who was it that studied history, chose what they wanted (from like a "smorgasbord of history" buffet), and came up with this crap? You see in a lot of those videos that these poor rubes actually have some kind of cliff notes they refer to when they "explain the law" to law enforcement officers.

So, who started this crap?


I suspect it's the natural evolution of the people who used to think the income tax amendment wasn't legally ratified and so they don't pay income taxes.

Sadly, I've known at least two people who separately started being normal until they went down this path (the income tax part, that is). I have no doubt they went the Sovereign Citizen route also.

It's very exhilarating and addictive when you get to a state of awareness of how things actually are and become part of a cabal of people who know these esoteric laws. It's like being in a cult.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 14254 | Location: Bay Area, CA | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Yes, these "sovereign citizens" are usually Ass Holes and their actions and words prove it without a doubt!
 
Posts: 304 | Location: Virginia Beach, VA | Registered: August 03, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Eschew Obfuscation
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:

I love those videos.

They are addictive!

I even enjoyed this one, which isn't even a video, but the recording of a 17 minute conference call between an attorney and one of these sovereign citizens: https://youtu.be/RDLpLGphd6s


_____________________________________________________________________

NRA Endowment Life Member; ISRA Member
_____________________________________________________________________

“It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them. Using this kind of reasoning, you can believe or not believe anything about anything, without having to bother to deal with facts or logic.” ― Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 4001 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Eschew Obfuscation
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:

You don't want to hear one of them explain it. It makes no sense. They use English words, but they literally don't make sense the way they string them together.

A lot of these folks sound like they've been taught certain scripts that they simply regurgitate without any idea of what they mean.

In one of the videos I watched, the driver keep citing Terry v Ohio, saying the case prohibited the police from opening the door of his car. Big Grin

At least he was in the ballpark. Except he had it backwards because the decisions that built on Terry don't prohibit - but allow - the police to search the area of a car within the driver's reach if they suspect the driver might have access to a weapon.


_____________________________________________________________________

NRA Endowment Life Member; ISRA Member
_____________________________________________________________________

“It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them. Using this kind of reasoning, you can believe or not believe anything about anything, without having to bother to deal with facts or logic.” ― Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 4001 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
try dealing with one. they are so fun. Had to deal with one who didnt understand simple things, like the US doesnt recongize the empire of whatever.


Used guns deserve a home too
 
Posts: 610 | Location: North Ga | Registered: August 06, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Void Where Prohibited
Picture of WaterburyBob
posted Hide Post
LEOs should be able to taze them immediately upon hearing the first of their nonsensical utterances.

"Am I being detained?" **ZAP**

"I don't recognize your authority" **ZAP**

"You work for me" **ZAP** **ZAP**

"Speeding is not a valid reason to stop me" **ZAP**



"If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards
 
Posts: 14511 | Location: Under the Boot of Tyranny in Connectistan | Registered: February 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Objectively Reasonable
Picture of DennisM
posted Hide Post
"I'm not driving. I'm traveling."
"Government can't own property, so I can't be charged with stealing government property."
"That flag has fringe on it. This must be a military court. I can't be tried in a military court."

Sigh.
 
Posts: 1395 | Registered: January 01, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
You guys have shared some of the more mild things. Wink

I have defended some of our local officers who have arrested them. These guys often file liens against public officials who cross them, and/or file lawsuits. That interferes with their insurance and especially ability to refinance mortgages. The most memorable guy did this several times, and is now doing time. Smile
I had him declared a vexatious litigator, and this prevented him from filing future lawsuits. I was proud of that.

In all formal pleadings, he used a semicolon in between his first name and last name. To him, this had legal significance. to the court, it did not.

By the way, that tape is gold. I should have video or audiotaped some of my depositions.
 
Posts: 345 | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is a great vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_v2713nUHw

Small town lawyer likes to sit down and drink some scotch and discuss the law on youtube. He goes through a bunch of Sovereign Citizen videos and explains their stupidity. He goes over what they are trying to reference and why it is wrong.

I think he does great videos but some of the livestreams go long.
 
Posts: 2539 | Registered: January 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Constable
posted Hide Post
Look up the "Freemen movement" on Wiki. We dealt with them here in MT in the late 80's.

In a nutshell...a scam to avoid Taxes or paying back USDA Ag Loans.

They were centered around the Jordan area. Finally the FBI came out and eventually arrested a mess of them, took their Land, etc.

They were a PITA to deal with. Refused to wear seat belt, refused to get a DL or register a vehicle. Issued their own license plates, etc.

Several lived in one of my Towns in my area of responsibility. So I was the ONLY real Government "Official" they had to screw with. Lucky me. I got a lot of harassing and threatening calls. Which allowed me to really arm up, bought a Benelli 12 ga Tactical shotgun, and my first good AR's. So Thank You Freemen for that.
 
Posts: 5519 | Location: Craig, MT | Registered: December 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of craigcpa
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by FN in MT:
Look up the "Freemen movement" on Wiki. We dealt with them here in MT in the late 80's.

In a nutshell...a scam to avoid Taxes or paying back USDA Ag Loans.

They were centered around the Jordan area. Finally the FBI came out and eventually arrested a mess of them, took their Land, etc.

They were a PITA to deal with. Refused to wear seat belt, refused to get a DL or register a vehicle. Issued their own license plates, etc.

Several lived in one of my Towns in my area of responsibility. So I was the ONLY real Government "Official" they had to screw with. Lucky me. I got a lot of harassing and threatening calls. Which allowed me to really arm up, bought a Benelli 12 ga Tactical shotgun, and my first good AR's. So Thank You Freemen for that.


Funny you mention the Montana Freemen. I was involved with a man here in NC, James V. Wells, who was sending them money for their beliefs. Only thing, though, was he was sending them sales tax he charged customers at his business, as well as withholding taxes from his employees paycheck. If I remember correctly, he sent over $100k to them.

Got out in August of 2006 and died that October.

IRS CI was intimated involved in that case, but the USDA OIG was lead.


==========================================
Just my 2¢
____________________________

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right ♫♫♫
 
Posts: 6758 | Location: Raleighwood | Registered: June 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
Picture of darthfuster
posted Hide Post
I admit that sometimes I skip to the good part.... Big Grin



...but resist, we much. We must, and we will much, about that, be committed. Al Sharpton 2011
 
Posts: 23045 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Don't Panic
Picture of joel9507
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
I would contend they hath watched too much of thy Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Wink

Is that even theoretically possible? Smile

I note with interest my local cinema megaplex is showing Monty Python and the Holy Grail in theaters a couple times next month. Good times.

Now, if they had a showing of "Sovereign Citizens and the Holy Taser" - well, I'd go see that too. Big Grin
 
Posts: 11844 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Eschew Obfuscation
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TAllen01:

I had him declared a vexatious litigator, and this prevented him from filing future lawsuits. I was proud of that.


Well done. You should be proud. LEOs have it tough enough without having their personal lives and finances screwed with by these people.


_____________________________________________________________________

NRA Endowment Life Member; ISRA Member
_____________________________________________________________________

“It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them. Using this kind of reasoning, you can believe or not believe anything about anything, without having to bother to deal with facts or logic.” ― Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 4001 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of rtquig
posted Hide Post
Recently I had in a welding class that I was a substitute teacher a 50 year old student. His tuition was paid for by the state to help him get employment. While waiting for class to end he was telling a high school student that received a speeding ticket that he should not pay it. The guy then tells the student he is a Sovereign Citizen and the student should tell the judge that he was "traveling" not driving. With 5 minutes to go, I just looked at my co-teacher and shook my head. There was no time to start telling the guy he was an idiot and leave the kid alone and pay his speeding ticket.


Living the Dream
 
Posts: 2848 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: December 06, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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