quote:

Originally posted by Steve Collins:

quote:

IIRC, part of my "study" of WW2 aircraft included the P47. and when they changed the prop to 4 blades the test pilot thought something was wrong because the performance was so much better.

To the best of my knowledge, unlike the Hellcat and Corsair, the P-47 never used anything other than a 4 bladed prop.

You might be right. My 79 YO memory sometimes gets confused.

If I was a young pilot in the European theater and could have chosen any airplane to fly, it would have been the P-47. She wasn't the sexy choice, but she was more likely to bring you home over the others. She could hold her own.

At a WWII 50yr anniversary air show I came across an obvious vet who was standing next to a parked P-47, lovingly caressing the old bird. He had tears in his eyes so I asked him if he was OK. "Oh, yes. Twice my 'Jug' brought me home with cylinders missing after a low level strafing run. They asked me if I wanted to go to a P-51 unit and I declined. My wing man went. He went down on his second mission after taking a shot to the engine. And here I am."

Here's a list of American aces in the ETO during WWII. As you can see, the P-47 more than held its own in aerial combat against the German planes--and in comparison to the P-51. I will acknowledge that the Jug probably had more months of service than the Mustang, if you'll acknowledge that the 47 pilots generally faced the best German fighter pilots. Attrition in the Luftwaffe was a real thing by 1944

American Aces ETO

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Originally posted by FlyingScot:
and when the paddle blade prop replaced the toothpick, it really could perform.

Just to add some detail, the original 12' Curtiss electric props were eventually replaced by 13' paddle props from both Curtiss and Hamilton Standard.

The P-47 was an awesome machine, and I regret being born too late to have the opportunity to fly one.

It is natural to compare the P-47 with the -51, but they were very different designs. The P-51 was a arguably better as an air to air fighter, and the Jug was unmatched in air-to-ground ops. One P-47 hit a tree and came back without 4' of wing (It is unlikely that any other European theater fighter could have survived that). Others had entire engine cylinders shot away and brought their pilots home. With the P-51, on the other hand, like any liquid-cooled aircraft, a single rifle-calibre bullet in the coolant tank meant the pilot was walking home (P-51s, renamed as F-51s in Korea had this same problem, and the Mustang was known as a poor choice for low altitude strikes where they would face small arms and other smaller AA weapons).

Early in the war, the P-47 held the line against the best of the Luftwaffe. By the time the P-51 came along, German pilot quality declined (on average, of course), so the P-51s had it slightly easier as far as aerial opposition goes. What the P-51s could do that no other plane could do was escort the heavy bombers all the way to Berlin and back. So, late in the war, it was natural for the P-51s to take on the brunt of escort work while the shorter range P-47s really got into close air support and anti-ground ops.

I love the Jug. She's a big ugly brute, just like the A-10 (another of my all-time favorite warbirds) - they even named the A-10 after the Jug, though hardly anybody outside Public Affairs calls the Hawg by its official name of "A-10 Thunderbolt II."

Umm hmm

Good documentary on the Thunderbolt and the waning days of the Reich:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tTbMKVuijE8

Very nice. I always thought it was a toss up between the lightning and corsair for sexiest warbird.

IIRC the P47 had self sealing fuel tanks. I think that was technology many other fighters did not have.

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Originally posted by FN in MT:
IIRC the P47 had self sealing fuel tanks. I think that was technology many other fighters did not have.

Most, if not all, US combat aircraft had them. I think most of the major powers had them.

The Japanese stand out as the exception to this practice, as they emphasized light weight and maneuverability over all else early in the war. Hence all the gun camera footage of Japanese aircraft turning into flaming torches after just a few hits. . .

Later Japanese designs had self sealing tanks and armor plate, but by then, pilot quality had declined so much that it didnt make much of a difference.

Several years ago we were transporting a patient to their home from the hospital, and there's quite a lot of WWII aviation goodies on display in their hallway. I strike up a conversation with the elderly gent, turns out he was a P-40 and P-47 pilot. I reply "Warhawks and Thunderbolts, right?" We chitchat for a bit, and he joked that the Mustang was the fighter that you flew if you wanted to impress your girlfriend - but if you wanted to survive long enough to fuck her, you flew the Thunderbolt. Cool guy

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Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
She's ugly but fast.

I'd call her handsome.

A P-47 of the 64th Fighter Squadron, while on a mission to Milan, struck the ground during a low-level strafing run. Despite the bent props and crushed chin, the pilot nursed the Jug 150 miles home to Grosseto. Photo via Hebb Russell

(it took Sheet Metal Shop three days to pound the "pucker" out of the seat pan...)





A P-47 flown by Lt. Richard Sulzbach of the 364th Fighter Squadron, 350th Fighter Group, 12th Air Force on 1 April 1945. Lt. Sulzbach had a little run-in with some trees while on a strafing run over Italy. He was able to fly the plane 120 miles back to base and land safely. It’s a real testament to how tough the P-47 was.

(Crew Chief and Egress Shop searched for two days, but never found the missing seat pack...)

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:


A P-47 of the 64th Fighter Squadron, while on a mission to Milan, struck the ground during a low-level strafing run. Despite the bent props and crushed chin, the pilot nursed the Jug 150 miles home to Grosseto. Photo via Hebb Russell

(it took Sheet Metal Shop three days to pound the "pucker" out of the seat pan...)





A P-47 flown by Lt. Richard Sulzbach of the 364th Fighter Squadron, 350th Fighter Group, 12th Air Force on 1 April 1945. Lt. Sulzbach had a little run-in with some trees while on a strafing run over Italy. He was able to fly the plane 120 miles back to base and land safely. It’s a real testament to how tough the P-47 was.

(Crew Chief and Egress Shop searched for two days, but never found the missing seat pack...)

I see what you did there....

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Originally posted by sigmonkey: (Crew Chief and Egress Shop searched for two days, but never found the missing seat pack...)

The Flight Surgeon found it a week later after the pilot complained (complaned?) of constipation.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Collins:

quote:

IIRC, part of my "study" of WW2 aircraft included the P47. and when they changed the prop to 4 blades the test pilot thought something was wrong because the performance was so much better.

To the best of my knowledge, unlike the Hellcat and Corsair, the P-47 never used anything other than a 4 bladed prop.

The initial batch of flying milk jugs had the 3 bladed prop, and the first units to fly them were not very happy with their "sluggishness".
A great read for those interested is a book, "Thunderbolt!", by Lt. Col Robert S Johnson (first US pilot to surpass Eddie Richenbacher's confirmed kills).

My Step father was an acquaintance of Kemal Saied, pilot and author of "Thunderbolt Odyssey".

It's a great read and gives a good account of the ground attack sweeps of occupied Europe and the cost that was paid by aviators.

My stepfather struck-up the friendship as he was an American who enlisted in the RAF in 1940 via Canada, his father having been a fighter pilot in WW1. I don't recall how they crossed paths, probably at an AAF reunion (he's was transferred in 44).


P47 was a devastatingly effective aircraft, probably the only aircraft with heavier armament was the b25 gunships, which could bring 12 .50 to bear.

I imagine the P47 must have been very frustrating to the German pilots who flew against it. With those self-sealing tanks and that armor I understand that many German pilots emptied their guns against the P47s - and then watched them fly away. Very frustrating indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Infidel:
Several years ago we were transporting a patient to their home from the hospital, and there's quite a lot of WWII aviation goodies on display in their hallway. I strike up a conversation with the elderly gent, turns out he was a P-40 and P-47 pilot. I reply "Warhawks and Thunderbolts, right?" We chitchat for a bit, and he joked that the Mustang was the fighter that you flew if you wanted to impress your girlfriend - but if you wanted to survive long enough to fuck her, you flew the Thunderbolt. Cool guy

Several years ago I had the opportunity to spend a few days in the company of Maj. General Edwin Robertson (USAF, ret.) A West Point graduate, he entered the Air Force just after WWII. His military decorations and awards include the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross with oak leaf cluster, and the Air Medal with 22 oak leaf clusters.

The first fighter he flew was the P-51 and the last was the F-15. I asked him what his favorite was, fully expecting the first and last fighters would be way up there. He didn't hesitate. "The F-80," he said. "It would take a lot of damage and still get you home."

Wow, pretty is as pretty does; just like the P-47.