Just a curiosity question since I grew up with what I consider to be an alcoholic uncle...

How do you define (decide who IS an alcoholic) someone being an alcoholic?

1. A person who MUST have a drink daily
2. A person who drinks way too much, but can go several days without a drink
3. Some combination of the above
4. Some other criterion that I’m missing

I have my own theory, but want to see what other forum members think due to greater life experiences.

Thanks!

All of the above.

Plus, when it controls your life is another but not the only one.

From my time at rehab for underage drinking in the military,

1 is the alcoholic
2 is an alcohol abuser

Both are problems, but the abuser is able to be treated with therapy and education, but alcoholism needing the added step of abstinence.

This is the military cut and dry version from the mid 90s, so take it for what it's worth.

The book Alcoholics Anonymous provides the definitive answer: An alcoholic is someone who has "lost the power of choice" over the first drink.

It's not necessary for an alcoholic to drink every day. My late wife was a binge drinker, who could go for long stretches of time without taking a drink. But when she picked up a drink, she wouldn't stop until she was obliterated. It finally killed her.

The general consensus is that alcoholism is both a mental obsession and a physical compulsion; the mind says "You need to drink" and the body says, "You can't stop drinking." Even A. A., perhaps the most successful approach to a solution, has not been able to determine the cause.

Years ago, the Mayo Clinic published a list of the top causes of death in the U. S. Alcoholism was listed as #4, behind heart disease, cancer and accidents, adding that when you calculate the other directly related causes (suicide, auto accidents, etc.), alcoholism was probably higher on the list.

Interesting question. In my younger days I drank a lot. I never missed a day of work because of drinking. I was never late for work because of drinking. I did make an ass out of myself due to being a "bit over served". One day, I woke up and decided find out who was in control, me or the bottle. I gave up drinking for about 10 years with zero urges to drink. Now I'll have a cocktail or two a couple of times a month. Was I an alcoholic? I don't know but I did give it up voluntarily. I do know there is a fine line between heavy drinking and alcoholism. I don't think I crossed it but maybe I did?

I quit on my own, without intervention either social or professional. According to some people's thinking, that means I wasn't (am not) an alcoholic.

I think "loss of control over taking the first drink" is a pretty good criterion, but my problem has been stated above: I could decide whether or not to have a drink, but once started, it ended when I was too blitzed to open another one.

In my case, there were two deciding factors: 1) It was seriously affecting my marriage, and 2) It was obvious even to me that it was getting steadily worse and wasn't going to end well.

In my own opinion (and that's the one that really counts) I am an alcoholic and can NEVER safely have another drink. It's been ~25 years and I'd still love to crack open a cold one on a hot day. Ain't gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent.

Problem Drinking vs. Alcoholism

This website explains some of the key differences between Alcoholism and Problem Drinking.

I met several of the criteria of a Problem Drinker in my mid 20’s. As a result of a particularly bad blackout, I dried out and did not drink again for almost 2 years. I did not have any detox symptoms. When I chose to drank again, it was never with the same intensity and I never had another blackout. By 30 and up to today at age 45, I drink infrequently and in rather small amounts when I do.

I do not know the definition, but I do know it when I see it. My maternal grandfather for example, was shunned by the family because of his obsession for alcohol.

His son (my uncle) was also an alcoholic but did dry out successfully with AA, and became a counselor who helped many people.

I overindulged a lot when I was younger, but over time I sort of lost interest in drinking as a hobby. I now might have a beer -- usually one, rarely two, almost never more than two -- with a meal. That probably does not occur more than once or twice a month, maybe less. A glass of wine? Sure, maybe ten or twenty in a year. Hard liquor? very rarely, and one drink, maybe two, but not more than that. I did not "quit" drinking, I just sort of lost interest in it. Maybe I'm finally growing up, in my eighties.

I look at it as do you control alcohol or does alcohol control you.

Some people can drink and be in control of when, how much, and how long they drink. Others have no say in the matter.

Here's another take: from the book Alcoholics Anonymous:

quote:

The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker.

The key to the above is "control" AND "enjoy." Alcoholics, when they are controlling their drinking, aren't enjoying it. And when they're enjoying it, they aren't controlling it.

Further, the book states,

quote:

The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

No punches pulled.

In the military we drank A LOT. We never missed work / flights / etc, as we wouldn't bend those rules but when it was time to party, we PARTIED. Completely hammered, head hurting drunk party.

Many of us became 'problem drinkers', but only one out of hundreds was / became an alcoholic - and he likely was one already before the military (and was a nasty fucking drunk to boot - the stereotypical 'angry Irishman').

Now in my early 40s, I have really dialed it back, to the point if I drink a 6 pack and half a bottle of wine throughout the entire year, I would be surprised. Wasn't even a conscious thought - I just lost the taste to have them more often than 1 on holidays, etc.

A danger sign is when someone hides or lies about drinking.

"I only had two" when you know damn well it was eight. Or that's where you lost count …

Hiding empty bottles so they won't be discovered. I had an in-law who died some years ago. After his death, his descendants were finding empty whiskey bottles stashed away in every odd nook or cranny throughout the basement, attic, barn, etc.

Can't control the drinking is a good criteria. May be daily, may be less frequent. But can't not drink is it.

Both one and two and anytime someone allows alcohol to negatively effect their life......either effecting their job, relationships with family or friends......etc.

My father was an alcoholic, he drank 1/3 of a 1.75L bottle of Vodka everynight. He was a functioning alcoholic and didn't drink until 6 pm, however it really negatively effected his relationship with his family.

A man who was a second father to me was sober 43 years when he passed.

Dick's definition of alcoholism was specific to his own condition and went like this:

He had no idea what would happen if he drank.
He might be okay.
He might wake up from a three-day blackout drunk in Ethiopia when he was supposed to be in Saudi Arabia, sober.
He might suddenly come out of a blackout to find himself in the midst of the armed robbery, holding a sawed-off shotgun to head of a grocery store night manager as the poor son of a b**** was frantically trying to open the safe. The terrifying part jere wasn't the robbery it was the fact that he had no idea whether there were armed accomplices, no idea who they were and no idea if there was a getaway car waiting in the parking lot. Dick liked to say sometimes you have to play the hand you're dealt.

That's alcoholism.

quote:

Originally posted by John Steed:
Hiding empty bottles so they won't be discovered. I had an in-law who died some years ago. After his death, his descendants were finding empty whiskey bottles stashed away in every odd nook or cranny throughout the basement, attic, barn, etc.

Yeah, that was my Uncle. Empties all over, in the car trunk, etc.

I grew up in an extended family of drinkers. They partied hard, drank a lot. Even to the point of buying gallon jugs of pure bourbon vanilla which they then distilled it to get the alcohol.

While in the army I drank a fair amount, as did most of us. Did a year as an advisor in Iran where I discovered that I was bordering on "needing that first drink in the morning".

We had our "bar" in the team house and our working schedule was tied to that of the Iranian army. I.e. 7AM to 1200. So we had plenty of "off time". We could buy booze from the embassy co-op store. Best booze was $1.85 for an imperial quart.

I got up one morning and discovered that my first thought was to go to the bar and get a drink.

Having lived with family who had that problem, I recognized it. Poured my liquor down the drain. Only alcohol I have drunk since then was a swallow of beer at my MIl's wake to celebrate her history of growing up in a German Gasthaus.

IMO, alcoholism is when an individual feels a "need" to have that first shot of alcohol.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

How do you define (decide who IS an alcoholic) someone being an alcoholic?

1. A person who MUST have a drink daily

^^^This.
Not only this but a almost watering of the mouth when you think about alcohol.
Rushing home from work so you can have a drink.
Looking forward to the weekend not just because work will be over but so that you can drink more and not worry about getting up for work.

When you need the "hair of the dog that bit you" to get moving.

or, first time you catch yourself saying to yourself, "you dont need it, you just enjoy it, you're not like "those people"".

Saw it up close and personal on my dad's side. Varying degrees between the brothers.