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Seeker of Clarity
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My theory:

If there is at all recurring, a point in the day when you (to yourself in your own mind) wish you just didn't drink, And then you drink again. You are an alcoholic.



"Whatever you spend your time on, it's all you have". -- Faramarz
 
Posts: 9129 | Registered: August 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The definition that most resonated with me is someone that once they start drinking, they can't stop drinking.
 
Posts: 1103 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
God will always provide
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quote:
Originally posted by matai:
The definition that most resonated with me is someone that once they start drinking, they can't stop drinking.

That coupled with "This time" I will only have one or two and I'll be "Able" to drink like everyone else "This Time" The insanity of doing the same behavior expecting different results is well insane.
 
Posts: 3661 | Location: White City, Florida | Registered: January 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Unlike AA, my view is reality based. First , alcoholism in not a legimate medical diagnosis, it is a derogatory slang term like junkie or crack whore. AA's claim that alcoholism is a spiritual disease caused by defects of character and moral shortcommings is ridiculous. AUD is caused by consuming to much alcohol over to long a period of time. Also, your DNA is fine, there is no alcoholic gene. AA is a religious death cult, Bill Wilson was its High Priest, and AA itself is god in that religion. The book, AA, is not about how to quit drinking, it is a book about how to start a cult. In its own publications it admits it dosent work, they claim that for every 100 people that approach them for help, 5 will remain members in a year. They don't even claim that those 5 remain sober. It seems reasonable that a organization with a claim of 5% success is not effective. Spontanious recovery is higher than that. I could not care less about what others religious beliefs are, even if, or espically if, they are under the mistaken belief that their religion is spiritual, not religious, Unless they try to impose those beliefs on others. Numerious federal courts, and countless state courts have found that AA meets all the tests of being a religion, and for any government actor to require participation in a 12 step program as a condition of probation , or attending 12 step meetings as a requirement for receiving any government funded health care or assistance programs is a clear violation of their 1st ammendment rights. There has to be a secular alternative such as SMART, Lifering, Secular organizations for Sobriety, Women in Sobrity, Refuge Recovery ect. Has any big AA fan done what Bill W instructs you to do on page 97 ? It seems to me, a former Dept Sheriff, EMT and a guy that has been around violent drunks, the to do those action items seen extremely dangerous and foolish. Any of you steppers done it and lived to tell about it ? Did a drunk start your house on fire ? Anyone curious about what i am talking about just Google( AA page 97), or (is AA a religion? Federal court decissions).
 
Posts: 133 | Registered: January 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott in NCal:
Unlike AA, my view is reality based. First , alcoholism in not a legimate medical diagnosis, it is a derogatory slang term like junkie or crack whore. AA's claim that alcoholism is a spiritual disease caused by defects of character and moral shortcommings is ridiculous. AUD is caused by consuming to much alcohol over to long a period of time. Also, your DNA is fine, there is no alcoholic gene. AA is a religious death cult, Bill Wilson was its High Priest, and AA itself is god in that religion. The book, AA, is not about how to quit drinking, it is a book about how to start a cult. In its own publications it admits it dosent work, they claim that for every 100 people that approach them for help, 5 will remain members in a year. They don't even claim that those 5 remain sober. It seems reasonable that a organization with a claim of 5% success is not effective. Spontanious recovery is higher than that. I could not care less about what others religious beliefs are, even if, or espically if, they are under the mistaken belief that their religion is spiritual, not religious, Unless they try to impose those beliefs on others. Numerious federal courts, and countless state courts have found that AA meets all the tests of being a religion, and for any government actor to require participation in a 12 step program as a condition of probation , or attending 12 step meetings as a requirement for receiving any government funded health care or assistance programs is a clear violation of their 1st ammendment rights. There has to be a secular alternative such as SMART, Lifering, Secular organizations for Sobriety, Women in Sobrity, Refuge Recovery ect. Has any big AA fan done what Bill W instructs you to do on page 97 ? It seems to me, a former Dept Sheriff, EMT and a guy that has been around violent drunks, the to do those action items seen extremely dangerous and foolish. Any of you steppers done it and lived to tell about it ? Did a drunk start your house on fire ? Anyone curious about what i am talking about just Google( AA page 97), or (is AA a religion? Federal court decissions).
 
Posts: 133 | Registered: January 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott in NCal:
Unlike AA, my view is reality based. First , alcoholism in not a legimate medical diagnosis, it is a derogatory slang term like junkie or crack whore. AA's claim that alcoholism is a spiritual disease caused by defects of character and moral shortcommings is ridiculous. AUD is caused by consuming to much alcohol over to long a period of time. Also, your DNA is fine, there is no alcoholic gene. AA is a religious death cult, Bill Wilson was its High Priest, and AA itself is god in that religion. The book, AA, is not about how to quit drinking, it is a book about how to start a cult. In its own publications it admits it dosent work, they claim that for every 100 people that approach them for help, 5 will remain members in a year. They don't even claim that those 5 remain sober. It seems reasonable that a organization with a claim of 5% success is not effective. Spontanious recovery is higher than that. I could not care less about what others religious beliefs are, even if, or espically if, they are under the mistaken belief that their religion is spiritual, not religious, Unless they try to impose those beliefs on others. Numerious federal courts, and countless state courts have found that AA meets all the tests of being a religion, and for any government actor to require participation in a 12 step program as a condition of probation , or attending 12 step meetings as a requirement for receiving any government funded health care or assistance programs is a clear violation of their 1st ammendment rights. There has to be a secular alternative such as SMART, Lifering, Secular organizations for Sobriety, Women in Sobrity, Refuge Recovery ect. Has any big AA fan done what Bill W instructs you to do on page 97 ? It seems to me, a former Dept Sheriff, EMT and a guy that has been around violent drunks, the to do those action items seen extremely dangerous and foolish. Any of you steppers done it and lived to tell about it ? Did a drunk start your house on fire ? Anyone curious about what i am talking about just Google( AA page 97), or (is AA a religion? Federal court decissions).


I Googled it and read page 97. Not sure what to make of that.
I know I wouldn't let someone in my house like that.
I also don't think many alcoholics are like that. Not sure about that but I've had a few friends that were alcoholics. They got multiple DUI's, wrecked cars and so on. Never heard of smashing furniture, setting things on fire, etc.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 2413 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To add to my last post, I have a female friend that offered to go with me to an AA meeting. I declined and never went.
Reading a few more pages of the AA manual, I'm kinda glad I didn't go.
Is it a religion? Not my call. It is preachy a bit but I'm the last person to ask about religion.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 2413 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Spiritually Imperfect
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott in NCal:
Unlike AA, my view is reality based. First , alcoholism in not a legimate medical diagnosis, it is a derogatory slang term like junkie or crack whore. AA's claim that alcoholism is a spiritual disease caused by defects of character and moral shortcommings is ridiculous. AUD is caused by consuming to much alcohol over to long a period of time. Also, your DNA is fine, there is no alcoholic gene. AA is a religious death cult, Bill Wilson was its High Priest, and AA itself is god in that religion. The book, AA, is not about how to quit drinking, it is a book about how to start a cult. In its own publications it admits it dosent work, they claim that for every 100 people that approach them for help, 5 will remain members in a year. They don't even claim that those 5 remain sober. It seems reasonable that a organization with a claim of 5% success is not effective. Spontanious recovery is higher than that. I could not care less about what others religious beliefs are, even if, or espically if, they are under the mistaken belief that their religion is spiritual, not religious, Unless they try to impose those beliefs on others. Numerious federal courts, and countless state courts have found that AA meets all the tests of being a religion, and for any government actor to require participation in a 12 step program as a condition of probation , or attending 12 step meetings as a requirement for receiving any government funded health care or assistance programs is a clear violation of their 1st ammendment rights. There has to be a secular alternative such as SMART, Lifering, Secular organizations for Sobriety, Women in Sobrity, Refuge Recovery ect. Has any big AA fan done what Bill W instructs you to do on page 97 ? It seems to me, a former Dept Sheriff, EMT and a guy that has been around violent drunks, the to do those action items seen extremely dangerous and foolish. Any of you steppers done it and lived to tell about it ? Did a drunk start your house on fire ? Anyone curious about what i am talking about just Google( AA page 97), or (is AA a religion? Federal court decissions).


Spiritual, not religious.
Nothing works for everybody.
I see hundreds of people every day whom it works for, and continues to do so. In a town of 47,000 people, no less.
 
Posts: 3055 | Location: WV | Registered: January 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
My neighbor gets home from work everyday and pulls his car in the garage. He gets out and grabs a beer out of his beer fridge in the garage and goes inside. And after that if you see him outside, he has a beer in hand. That’s an alcoholic to me. You just know he’s been thinking about those beers all day long.


You actually believe that? Confused
You sound like the sick one to me. Frown
 
Posts: 17273 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don’t post much here, but wanted to weigh in on this one, having some personal experience. The key point to alcoholism is do you control it or does it control you. It’s a blurry-assed line and many alcoholics do everything in their power to convince themselves they control it. They don’t. If your life revolves around the next drink, whatever that may mean to you, you’re most likely an alcoholic.

I was a serious drinker for many years. But I had two things going for me. I didn’t/don’t like being out of control, so nearly always spread the drinking over a long time frame to avoid getting stupid drunk. And I had a purge valve. Stupid drunk, the few times I got there, engaged puking which engaged, whelp, that’s done. I never convinced myself that getting behind the wheel while drinking or engaging in fisticuffs were good ideas, so avoided those issues.

I’ve been in a lot of AA meetings as a supporter of friends and family rather than member. Somehow, I had no issue seriously curtailing when I decided I’d had enough and now might have a drink once a month or so. I was surprised and grateful for this. For many, it is the defining battle of their lives to make it to that first 30 days of sobriety. I will say AA has some cult qualities but it’s worked for a lot of people. A couple of things it provides: a path forward through dark days with frequent reminders of what happens should you fall off; a new group of friends—one of the hardest parts of quitting for people is the friend group was often involved in the drinking games; and, a purpose beyond the next drink—sponsoring or volunteering for a role at the meeting (someone needs to make the coffee) keeps you going and the longer you go, the more newcomers you touch in a positive way. In a lot of ways, it’s like becoming a new member of a church or club. It’s a new identity when you’ve accepted a critical flaw in your own and are ready to change it.

Some of the happiest people I know are recovering alcoholics. When you’re in it, you forget that life, not a bottle, brings happiness. The challenges in life are there regardless. The satisfaction of dealing with them rather than drowning them or drowning in them is its own reward. Grateful alcoholics.
 
Posts: 85 | Registered: November 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My personal assessment is when a person doesn't have control over that substance its an addiction.

Whether they drink every day into a stupor, or binge drink & get into trouble, either one is out of control.

It made sense to me in a way I hadn't heard before while attending a 'life skills' course at a local church "People are medicating themselves with alcohol because they can't deal with life otherwise".

I know several people who attend AA and it works for them, so its effective for some, thats a positive. Not a fan of it myself, seems a bit cultish or a quasi-religion. I don't campaign against it by any means, nor do I consider a person a life-long alcoholic if they've gotten straight.



<><
America, Land of the Free - because of the Brave
 
Posts: 1495 | Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL - its a dry heat....... | Registered: January 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
On the DL
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Originally posted by PowerSurge:

My neighbor gets home from work everyday and pulls his car in the garage. He gets out and grabs a beer out of his beer fridge in the garage and goes inside. And after that if you see him outside, he has a beer in hand. That’s an alcoholic to me. You just know he’s been thinking about those beers all day long.
You live in Arlen?




A mind is a terrible thing.
 
Posts: 21868 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by PowerSurge:
My neighbor gets home from work everyday and pulls his car in the garage. He gets out and grabs a beer out of his beer fridge in the garage and goes inside. And after that if you see him outside, he has a beer in hand. That’s an alcoholic to me. You just know he’s been thinking about those beers all day long.


Not sure I would reach the same conclusion as you did.
 
Posts: 6112 | Registered: October 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Bytes:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
My neighbor gets home from work everyday and pulls his car in the garage. He gets out and grabs a beer out of his beer fridge in the garage and goes inside. And after that if you see him outside, he has a beer in hand. That’s an alcoholic to me. You just know he’s been thinking about those beers all day long.


Not sure I would reach the same conclusion as you did.


I don’t care. My father was an alcoholic and was the same way. If one has to get a beer the minute one gets home AND one drinks a 6 pack every night, one is an alcoholic.

His weakness cost my father everything.


————————————-
Those who can, do. Those who can’t, manage.
 
Posts: 1441 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Seems to be quite an emotional issue for many. The simple stats are one of ten who drinks alcohol develops a problem with booze. If one parent is alcoholic it is one out four, two parents it is a fifty fifty chance.

Alcoholism has both a genetic and environmental cause. That is clearly established. It is not a moral weakness anymore than cancer or diabetes. There are a variety of treatment approaches that work.
 
Posts: 6736 | Location: MS GULF COAST | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Seems to be quite an emotional issue for many.


No shit. Eek
I think a lot of people also who handle alcohol perfectly well also feel guilty about drinking.
When you have that it's evil and bad spewed so much it gets indoctrinated into your beliefs.
Fact is that many can handle it just fine and like anything else in life consumed in excess you are looking for problems.
Whatever the reason is blame it's up to the individual to solve.
YMMV
 
Posts: 17273 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
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Quite a few thought provoking posts here, and a few that I will review later more closely...

For me, I have no doubt that I drink WAAAY too much, however, I can also go several days without a drink if I feel I don’t need/want it!

I started drinking heavily around February of this year, as that is when my insomnia kicked in. Despite whatever sleep meds my doctor prescribed, nothing made me sleep like too much bourbon! I went through the normal litany of Rx sleep meds; one was found absolutely dangerous as I became destructive in my “sleep”, and others caused me to do strange things like order watches I couldn’t really afford, but at least I did get sleep!

So here we are, several months later and I fell in love with the watch I shouldn’t keep, and it lives on my wrist... almost 24/7!

I was awake for 72 hours straight, then finally fell asleep and slept for 48 hrs plus... completely missing my first appt with my sleep doctor!!!

This shit MUST stop!!!


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3555 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you're trying to answer the question, "Do I have a problem?", a counselor put it to me and my now late ex-wife this way: Can you take a drink, then put it down and not have another drop of alcohol for 30 days. If you can't do that, you have a serious problem.
 
Posts: 1212 | Location: Fairfax, VA | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
My neighbor gets home from work everyday and pulls his car in the garage. He gets out and grabs a beer out of his beer fridge in the garage and goes inside. And after that if you see him outside, he has a beer in hand. That’s an alcoholic to me. You just know he’s been thinking about those beers all day long.


Not sure I would reach the same conclusion as you did.


I don’t care. My father was an alcoholic and was the same way. If one has to get a beer the minute one gets home AND one drinks a 6 pack every night, one is an alcoholic.

His weakness cost my father everything.

I used to grab coffee the minute I got out of bed. Drank more on the way to work. Then also most of the morning.
While it's just a habit, it can be overdone. No one thinks about how much caffeine their neighbor drinks just by seeing a cup or two. No one knew how strong my coffee was.
For me, I had to quit it. I've been coffee/caffeine free for 10+ yrs., aside from a couple rootbeers I thought were Caf free.
 
Posts: 5604 | Location: MI | Registered: May 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Learn it, know it, live it
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I enjoyed reading this thread tonight/this morning.

I've wondered at times lately if I drink too much.
According to what I've read tonight I'm an alcoholic.

I drink 2 or 3 beers 5 days a week after work.
I get off work around midnight or so, wife is already in bed.
Get home at 1:00 AM, take a shower, let the dogs out, drink a few beers to wind down and get to bed.
I'll drink a few on weekend nights as well, usually as I cook dinner or if we go out.

I only drink in the evenings on the weekends, when all my work or things I want to get done for the day are finished.
I'm not one of those that can drink while I mow or work around the house.
I'll only drink during the week when I get off work.

Perhaps my crutch (in my mind) is that I just can't come home at 1:00 AM and just go to bed after being at work for 12 hours.
I need to shower, wind down, cruise my forums, play with the dogs (quietly), and relax before I get in bed.

But I will say, as someone mentioned, my issue seems to be habit.
I'll come home and drink a beer even if I don't really feel like having one.

My biggest issue is weight gain, I could stand to lose a few pounds.
Honestly this is the only reason I question drinking too much.
Whether that is right or wrong IDK.

I only drink beer, I don't drink liquor.
I did drink liquor in my earlier years (16 to 27) but have no use for hard liquor the last 30 years.
I've actually offended friends in bars that bought me a shot that I politely refused.
Some seem to take that as a personal insult, but since I drive for a living, I refuse to risk a DWI or any hangover the next day.

There seem to be many variables on drinking too much.
Some have a few drinks every night and go to work the next day.
Some start and can't seem to stop until they are shitfaced.
Some prioritize drinking over family, employment, etc.
I lived with one of those years ago.

Perhaps after reading through this thread I could only drink on the weekends.
But if I stopped drinking nightly, there is a chance i wouldn't drink at all.
I see no negatives there.

It really seems to me I have a bad habit.
Feel free to comment.....

Thanks 1LL


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Posts: 4007 | Location: Great State of TEXAS | Registered: July 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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