quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
I'm curious to know how such a program would save taxpayers' money.

It is really, really hard to smoke cheese

It would be interesting to see reliable numbers on how many people receive food stamps. Then of that number how many abuse the system -- Ie, they are capable of self support but why work when the money is free. Or they play games with food stamps so they can buy forbidden stuff. Then do the same analysis by dollars, how many $$ are spent for valid use vs how many $$ are spent in abuse.

I think of the old adage, that which we attain too easily we esteem too lightly. The easier we make getting welfare the more abuse we will see. What many receive as compassionate charity one day, they will demand as a "right" the next day.

As for the feasibility and logistics of the proposed new food program....

I can order probably any one of 50,000 items from Amazon and have it delivered to my front door the next day. I can get a delivery by Amazon from Whole Foods if I want to in less than two days. Amazon has a daily deal thing where you use a smart phone app to find the nearest location of one of their daily deal trucks and you can drive over to pick up whatever item on sale. I have no doubt the federal gov couldn’t implement the program but bring in private companies to handle the logistics. Let Bezos and Cuban come up with a solution. Cuban thinks he’s so damn smart, well here you go Mark.

Everyday I pull a handful of junk mail out of my mailbox and deposit it directly in my trash can. Hell, let the USPS deliver some food boxes instead of junk mail. Put some of the recipients of the free food program to work helping deliver food to their neighbors. Don’t want to contribute, then don’t eat.

We can shoot satellites out of orbit with a missile. We have a space station orbiting the earth. Don’t tell me we can’t deliver some damn food boxes to people.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
I'm curious to know how such a program would save taxpayers' money.

Do you think all the food stamp recipients actually need those stamps for food or do you think a percentage of them only get said stamps to use/trade for alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, hookers, etc?

How many recipients do you think will drop out of the program if they received food instead of [fake] money?

A few years back, my MIL had a person offer to pay for her groceries with food stamps. The person wanted cash in exchange for the stamps.

quote:

Originally posted by car541:

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
I'm curious to know how such a program would save taxpayers' money.

It is really, really hard to smoke cheese

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:
"C" Rations. Give them cases of "C" Rations. That'll be the incentive to get them back to a meaningful job.

LOL, when I went through basic training in 1980, we ate C rats from VietNam.

let the PO deliver it in clearly marked GOV FOOD HELP boxes.

It would have to be pickup. Imagine the amount of theft of boxes left at the front door on delivery day, not to mention damage to stuff left out in sub-freezing or 100+ degree temperatures.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:...
I think of the old adage, that which we attain too easily we esteem too lightly. The easier we make getting welfare the more abuse we will see. What many receive as compassionate charity one day, they will demand as a "right" the next day.

There is a related adage, poor folk have poor ways. Socitey often provides very decent low income housing to those in need, and the needy trash it. It's not that they are malicious, rather, many do not have productive, wholesome habits. But in the name of social justice and equality, they demand their right to live from other people's money.

Once again..Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-20160819-story.html


The fraud is possible because the stores are in on the game.

http://www.miamiherald.com/new...article77078947.html

So after a full week of working at a new convenience store, I have another sample set of EBT purchases to draw my conclusions from. Just last night, I did eight EBT purchases, and four of those were candy and cookies purchased along with sugary alcoholic drinks like Mike's Harder or Steel Reeserve Blueberry, and blunt wraps or Swishers. Two purchases were simply Hostess snacks cake type stuff. One young lady came back twice to get more cookies and some flavored blunt wraps. One fellow has been buying all his meals every day with a Colorado EBT card, he gets cold burritos and chicken sandwiches, no alcohol or tobacco, but also plenty of sweets. He's the first customer I've dealt with who is even in the ballpark of using the service the way it should be, and I think that's because he's homeless and these other people aren't. I stand by my prior assertion that these people shouldn't have the choice to spend taxpayer dollars this way.


Also, Rogue, I saw your prior post and yes, you're technically correct. But I'm not going to quibble SNAP vs. EBT. The terminal the purchases get rung up through say EBT in a zillion places, the card says EBT, the paperwork says EBT, the customers call it EBT, the only person in my whole experience with the thing that wants to insist on calling it SNAP is you.

Massive food stamp fraud uncovered
By Thomas Lifson

The very expensive ($70.9 billion in 2016) federal food stamp program (officially: Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP) is an open invitation to fraud. The latest indicator comes from Jacksonville, Florida. News4Jax.com (Channel 4 in Jacksonville) reports:

Sheriff Mike Williams announced Tuesday the results of a multi-agency, undercover investigation into the exchange of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits for cash and, in at least one case, cocaine.

From 2012 to 2017, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office detectives, working with federal and state agencies, documented more than 22,000 fraudulent transactions involving $3.7 million in taxpayer money.

"These people are selling or stealing money from hardworking taxpayers right here in our community, and they are abusing a program that is meant to help people," Williams said.

Williams said that during Operation Half-Back, undercover officers personally observed 115 individuals in 390 fraudulent transactions from February to July 2017.

Investigators said those with SNAP/EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer) cards would give their PIN number to the buyer, and that money would then be deposited into their accounts.

Williams said, in most cases, the food-stamp recipient received 50 cents per $1 of SNAP benefit used. Each transaction was recorded.

This operation required a heavy investment of law enforcement resources, it should be noted, making the actual cost of the fraud much higher than the $3.7 million total stolen from taxpayers. Having officers observe 390 transactions eats up a lot of time. News4Jax recorded some of the arrests in this video:

And provided this image of the suspects:



The SNAP program ballooned under President Obama (up 42%). But, it is worth noting that even under George W. Bush, the program metastasized. Almost as if people had motives other than a true need for food in enrolling:

Source

A very similar story came out of Worcester, Massachusetts, where $3.6 million was stolen, resulting in a mere one year prison sentence for the woman who was the ringleader.

This endemic fraud is the reason why President Trump’s proposal to move toward food boxes makes great sense, despite the ridicule and specious criticism that it elicited.

Director of the Office of Management and Budget Mick Mulvaney explained that “part” of food stamp recipients’ benefits would “come in…a Blue Apron-type program where you actually receive the food instead of receive the cash.”

The proposal, called “America’s Harvest Box,” would reportedly contain “homegrown” products, sourced from American farmers and producers. Shelf-stable milk, juice, grains, cereals, pasta, peanut butter, beans, canned meat, poultry or fish, canned fruit and vegetables are among the items that would be included in the box.

rest of their benefits would be provided on electronic benefit cards as they are currently.

Mulvaney claimed that the change would allow the government to save nearly $130 billion over 10 years, as it would lower government costs because it could buy the products at wholesale prices.

Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue asserted that the box would maintain “the same level of food value as SNAP participants currently receive,” calling it a “bold, innovative approach to providing nutritious food to people who need assistance feeding themselves and their families.”

It is much more difficult to turn a food box into spendable money than a credit card-like SNAP card. Boxes are not fungible the way electronic finds are. And, they don't contain junk food.

https://www.americanthinker.co...fraud_uncovered.html

I’m volunteering at a food pantry.

I don't want to see anyone go hungry.

There are many food pantries everywhere.

I just wonder if there is double dipping, if you see what I mean.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I’m volunteering at a food pantry.
I don't want to see anyone go hungry.
There are many food pantries everywhere.

I'm glad you brought that up.
That's called charity, and it's a noble thing.

The government is not capable of charity. The government is force. Therefore, by definition, the government cannot provide charity.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
― James Madison

"I believe in helping our fellow man in need. I believe that reaching into your own pockets to help someone in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into somebody else's pockets to help your fellow man in need is despicable. And, for those of us who are Christians, I'm very sure that when God gave Moses the commandment Thou Shalt Not Steal, he did not mean ... unless you get a majority vote in Congress."
- Walter E. Williams

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I’m volunteering at a food pantry.
I don't want to see anyone go hungry.
There are many food pantries everywhere.

I'm glad you brought that up.
That's called charity, and it's a noble thing.

The government is not capable of charity. The government is force. Therefore, by definition, the government cannot provide charity.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
― James Madison

"I believe in helping our fellow man in need. I believe that reaching into your own pockets to help someone in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into somebody else's pockets to help your fellow man in need is despicable. And, for those of us who are Christians, I'm very sure that when God gave Moses the commandment Thou Shalt Not Steal, he did not mean ... unless you get a majority vote in Congress."
- Walter E. Williams

Yet it really isn't charity in the most simple application of the concept. The food pantry at our church has 'zero' latitude (Florida law) to turn anyone away or even try and quantify people's need for assistance. As such, when I did a bit of work at church a few months ago, I watched Cadillac Escalades, a few BMW's, and a whole lot of new'ish' SUV's roll in and haul away trunk loads of food. And I won't even entertain an argument that someone driving a Cadillac Escalade needs food assistance. Also of note was that virtually none of these people spoke any English.

All of these BS SNAP and EBT programs and government requirements on charities need to end asap.

bigdeal, same abusive scenario at our local food pantry, Helping Hands. Newer cars, trucks, well dressed & groomed people. In one example, I was handing out 5 lb bags of frozen chickens. A lady told me, "I don't have time to thaw that out, keep it." Only in America. I got very good at spotting the really poor folks. Very grateful & thankful, most looked down & avoided much eye contact. Those folks always said thank you & nodded, the others, not as grateful. Like it was owed them.

I was told many of these folks sell their supplies for tobacco, booze/beer. I saw so much abuse, I quit. Just couldn't hold my tongue.

I wonder if it will get any traction

I'm not so worried about the cost as I am the benefit of it going a long way to reducing fraud

and if along the way it forces a few people to get off the program, then its a win-win

In the 80’s food stamps looked more like money orders and would get ‘change back’ if less than a dollar.

When I worked at 7-11, parents would come in with kids. Each would get a $1 food stamp and each kids would buy a $.05 chocolate football and get their $0.95 change back. All the change would be handed back to parent and then parent would buy pack of cigarettes with all the coin.

Fuck, I hated those people.

quote:

In the 80’s food stamps looked more like money orders and would get ‘change back’ if less than a dollar.

I once opened a locked safe and thought it was full of rolled coin. This stuff may have predated your story, but it was food stamp change.

Colored plastic coins in the same denominations as regular change. I assume it was given out to prevent what happened in your story.

Looks like I shouldn't have thrown them away as they are selling for far more than face value as collectibles.