In the summer keep my Airedales nearly shaved and take them out to the coast for a swim. The Pacific Ocean salt water seems to help.

Glad to hear things are working out, Black. I think Irreverent has given you excellent input and I would agree.

On the diet, I'm not here to get into a debate, but will say in my practice we have had multiple, multiple cases of dogs on grain free diets having heart issues that have been demonstrated to resolve when the only intervention was changing the diet. Multiple breeds, varied sizes, different grain free diets. We have also had some that have died from their diet related heart issues, so I'm a believer in changing the diet. My logic is that if it's easy to do, and can prevent or correct issues, why would you NOT alter the diet? In many cases feeding a LESS expensive diet ends up being beneficial, and since dogs aren't obligate carnivores (like cats) then there's no reason NOT to make the change. If my clients really want to maintain the grain free (because the dog's coat has improved, allergy issues, etc), we strongly advocate for monitoring the ProBNP heart enzymes routinely.

Apoquel (tablets only) and Cytopoint (injections only) are made by the same company. Apoquel essentially hits all the "inflammatory trigger" points that Cytopoint hits, plus a few more. So theoretically, Apoquel would always work better than Cytopoint, right? Yet in a few cases (all documented well), Apoquel didn't help certain patient(s), but the Cytopoint injection did. Nobody can really explain it very well, even the manufacturer, but they will tell vets to at least TRY it when Apoquel fails. My frustration is, it's a very expensive injection, especially if it fails....

In the days before Apoquel and Cytopoint, we used steroids (prednisone, methylprednisolone, Temaril, etc) for severe cases. Now, we are trying to get away from them because of the side effects. There are still cases that may require them, but we try to look for safer alternatives first.

Glad you're seeing improvement, and hope it continues. She's a pretty girl.

Slabside I appreciate the info very much. With what you were seeing what do you feel the issue is? What about grain free foods is causing this? Just the simple lack of grain?
Our vet said the issue he did see was contributed to low taurine levels associated with some grain free feeds.

I spent a chunk of the morning reading the bags that included salmon, venison, duck, or a combination of those and I noticed that quite a few of them noted they had added Taurine.

I had Lilli my GSD on a grain free diet for 11 years, granted she had EPI, but no cardiac issues.
The vet suggested making sure that when looking at the ingredients make sure it specifically mentions deboned meat.

The Hills and Royal Canin are running about $100 a 20 lb bag and I can only source the chicken based locally.

They did have Blue Buffalo Wilderness Denali that checked all the boxes and is a salmon and venison mix. It is $50 a 22 lb bag.

Also had American Journey Salmon and Sweet Potato it is $45 for a 24 lb bag.

Think I’ll give the Blue Buffalo a shot.

Need to send Jeff an email to learn more about the allergy test he is talking about.

My Belgian Sheepdog had serious itching. First I tried Benadyrl. Then there were the shots that he took weekly, then biweekly, then monthly. That didn't work either. The Vet then recommended Apoquel and I started giving him that. His itching stopped THAT DAY! The Vet started him on two 16mg tablets per day for two weeks. Then one tab per day for two weeks. After that he said I could give him a half every day and if that didn't work I would have to go back up to two per day and reduce from there. The stuff works great and there have been no side effects that I can see. My Belgian has been taking it for about five or six years now and he is almost 15 years old.

After the Benadryl didn't work my Belgian had the allergy test and he was allergic to several things including several items found in most dog food. We switched him to Solid Gold Hund n Flocken. Then he started the shots, and then finally the Apoquel.

I have had dogs all my life. My current dog, now guesstimated to be 11 yrs. old, was in extremely poor condition when he was rescued. Weighed about half of what he should have, missing teeth, absolutely no hair on his tail, & infested with maggots in his ears. They thought his ears would have to me amputated. Extreme neglect. He is a Siberian Husky. I have had him for 9 years now. You would never believe how bad of shape he was in by looking at him now but I do know that his coat never was what it "should have been". I am assuming it was from his first 2 years of poor nutrition.

I have tried Dinovite on him, it does not seem to make a difference & after a while, he seems to not like how it tastes & he won't really want his food with it in it. However, he has learned that he is not allowed to leave his crate until his food is eaten so he will him-haul around & eventually finish it. Dinovite does have a money back guarantee on your first purchase, if you continue purchasing/using it after the initial supply, there is no money back guarantee. I figured it couldn't hurt. Both times I used it, it did not seem to make any difference; good or bad. Every animal is different & it could work in some. His issue is not with allergies, just a general coat not looking quite as good as I think it should.

My husband's dog, a German Shepherd, was in unbearable discomfort with itching, she was giving herself open sores, put a cone on her & she'd get open sores from the cone all around her neck. Took her to the "best of the best" allergy vet probably in the whole country & she is allergic to cats & a few types of grass. Cytopoint was used initially & helped almost instantly. Now she is on Apoquel. If we run out, within a few days, you can tell. We feed her Zignature. They even have a kangaroo based formula if you need to try a different/uncommon protein base.

I use to manage a high end pet store & they sent me to different seminars to learn a variety of things pertaining to animals. 1 thing I did not know until then, is that some vets get kickbacks from the different companies such as Science Diet & Royal Canin "vet formulated" pet foods. I was livid because, before I knew better, my own vet had my diabetic dog on Science Diet diabetic formula dog food. Guess what the 1st ingredient was? Corn!!!! Corn is a high glycemic index food. Which is bad for diabetics. My poor dog. Always do your "due diligence" & research the heck out of what people tell you. I have learned that many vets (like human doctors) do not know nearly as much about nutrition as one would think they should; as many issues can be helped by proper nutrition & supplements. I respected my other vet when I asked what food my cat should be on when he told me he did not know much about nutrition & I should consult a cat nutritionist. At least he didn't just recommend what they sold. I would have respected him even more if he actually knew cat nutrition & had "real advice" for me.

My previous dog had a lot of food allergies, and my current one has some. For the first dog I did an allergy test, and avoided the foods the test indicated she was allergic to.

Both for her and my current dog the solution was limited ingredient foods. I like to find 2 or 3 foods that agree with the dog in order to provide some nutritional variety, since each food has only a few ingredients.

These are the current foods I'm feeding. Note that the first one, a dry food, contains oatmeal and barley:

Breakfast-
https://www.chewy.com/wellness...ealth-adult/dp/34374
Dinner-
https://www.chewy.com/honest-k...ingredient/dp/118304
https://www.chewy.com/-chewste...eal-mixers/dp/160755

Sigh.

quote:

Originally posted by MagicHorse:

I use to manage a high end pet store & they sent me to different seminars to learn a variety of things pertaining to animals. 1 thing I did not know until then, is that some vets get kickbacks from the different companies such as Science Diet & Royal Canin "vet formulated" pet foods. I was livid because, before I knew better, my own vet had my diabetic dog on Science Diet diabetic formula dog food. Guess what the 1st ingredient was? Corn!!!! Corn is a high glycemic index food. Which is bad for diabetics. My poor dog. Always do your "due diligence" & research the heck out of what people tell you. I have learned that many vets (like human doctors) do not know nearly as much about nutrition as one would think they should; as many issues can be helped by proper nutrition & supplements. I respected my other vet when I asked what food my cat should be on when he told me he did not know much about nutrition & I should consult a cat nutritionist. At least he didn't just recommend what they sold. I would have respected him even more if he actually knew cat nutrition & had "real advice" for me.

Gosh, I'm really angry after reading your post. After 25 years of peddling prescription dog foods, I feel cheated that I still haven't gotten my "kickbacks." While I think most would agree that if you sell a product it SHOULD be for a profit, in my entire career I've never been aware of there being a system of under the table payments back to veterinarians in exchange for their recommendation of any product line. But I'm sure the high end pet store was above reproach in their quest to solve the nutritional needs of their customer's pets for break-even pricing. Right? They are all 501C3, right?

I will extricate myself from this thread now that the experts have arrived, as always seems to happen. OP, if I may help you further, please email me and I'll gladly correspond with you. I don't have the patience for these type threads any more, and should have learned by now what they do to my blood pressure.

When our black lab was about 3 she suddenly started losing all the hair on her tail and belly. We couldn't figure it out. The vet, after many tests and $, decided it was a food allergy and put her on Blue Buffalo. It never got worse but it never got better.

FFWD about 5 years and we decided to move. Within 3 months all of her hair grew back.

Moral of the story is don't discount environmentals. Have your ducts cleaned out. Have your carpets cleaned. Pay attention to the detergents you use when you was the dog's bed. When does the lawn-guy come... etc...

Talked with the vet yesterday to give an update. She is doing much better but still itching some. He wants to see her a few days before her meds run out as he might run her another 2 weeks as her case was pretty severe.
The 3 meds ran me $152 for 2 weeks from the vet. I stopped by my Pharmacy thinking I was about to ask a stupid question if they filled pet prescriptions because they saved us a ton of money on our kids meds over Kroger Pharmacy.
Apparently they do a lot!
They priced all the meds and will be $41 cheaper for the 2 week supply.
They said they only stock meds that are for both human and pet needs but all others would be available the following day after being called in except Apoquel that they actually keep that one in stock as it is so widely filled here.

I also have the Allergy test from Jeff on the way so we’ll see in a few weeks what that has to say.

Black, it should arrive tomorrow.

Black, that sounds just like our hound, skin allergies seem to be a big thing in dogs these days, I don't remember my previous hounds having the issue, but we got them straight from the breeder.

Medicated baths help, you have to get her lathered up and let it stay on her for about 15 minutes before rinsing. We do the same, wife also will put her in a tub of warm water with Epsom salts, and that seems to calm her skin down.

Apoquil is great for taking care of some of it, but when it gets past a point, Cytopoint is the only option, it will stop it asap while you treat with topical or oral solutions.

Good look she looks like a sweet dog...

Costco has a "pet program" you fill out a card that your "pet" doesn't have insurance and they discount the heck out of the drugs. Check to see if you pharmacy offers the same..

Zymox makes a great spray and also a shampoo that are medicated for anti itch. It may help until you get the allergies figured out.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Yarchin:
Black, it should arrive tomorrow.

Your check went snail mail today.

Thanks again

I got the results of the allergy stuff back today and just our luck Salmon and chicken are likely big triggers.

Working with Jeff as we speak to take the results and get her settled in a fitting feed.

Would immediately suspect diet.

Might try:
Dr Tim’s
Annamaet
Orijen

My guys do better with some grains.

Be gradual when switching foods.

As has been posted before....some good information is found here.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

So it has been awhile Apoquel and steroids were not doing anything.
This dog would itch and scratch herself raw 24/7 with every food we tried , every, med we could find, just throwing away money.
I was at my Witt’s end.

Finally I did it after hearing those stupid Dinovite commercials on talk radio for years and their money back guarantee.

They said it would take a couple months but would see a difference in 90 days or get your money back.

It FREAKING WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! It took about 2 months to really notice a difference but damn she barely scratches at all anymore. It is so great she is such a happier pup.
She still sheds quite a bit with a bit of dandruff but she does not lick herself to the point of bleeding daily.
No licking her paws, no licking her belly, nothing.

Also was suggested trying Inukshuk food by some fellas on our K-9 unit.
So she gets Inukshuk food, doggie antihistamine 2 times a day, salmon oil pill in the morning, and Dinovite with each meal.

Way cheaper than the fancy foods we tried and worlds cheaper than fancy food coupled with Apoquel.

Always figured Dinovite was just some snake oil talk radio advertiser. Nope!! And it is made just down the road a bit from where we live.

Would've recommended Dinovite had I seen this earlier, had wonderful results with our itchy hound dog!!

Congrats! I’m so happy to hear something worked for your itchy dog. In all honesty, I’ve never heard of it, but I’ve been out of the game for a while. I’ll have to take a look, and find out the mechanism of action. Again, congrats. Skin issues can be the biggest frustration.

I had have a GSDHound mix that has horrible itchy skin over the years which often led to ear infections and we tried all the vet stuff. Eventually we found a local groomer that uses a red mineral bath and we have never looked back. I am certain it was allergy caused.