I sat next to a woman on a plane recently. Her take was that girls in the boy scouts was fine. Used the term gender several times.
Making boys more like girls and vise versa benefited all bullshit.

I told her girls need to pave their own way. They can accomplish whatever they choose. It is up to them to pave their own way. No limitations, period.
I also told her we need our boys to grow into warriors. That shut her up.

I also told her the boy scouts would not survive and that if she did not believe me to seek out knowledge as to who was pushing the agenda in the last dozen or so years.

I feel badly for all of you Boy Scouts who grew into upstanding men due to the program. I really do.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
At the end, it's another institution, that the most vile and arrogant of the left, will cheer and celebrate its downfall. There's a number of poor decisions that BSA made, hopefully they can recover to some degree but, I fear this is another 'symbol' the left will rejoice in its destruction and its allies in the press will gleefully trumpet.

I don't think it's only the Left that are celebrating the demise of Scouting. Threads in this forum show just as many on the Right celebrating the demise of Scouting.

You're not wrong. I think much of what affected Scouting, was for every positive experience (Which I count myself as one), there was just as many negative experiences.
Unlike the military, its not for everyone however, there's many, many people that get out, and remark that being in the military opened them up to a lot, and learned a lot, before moving on. In the case of Scouting, it's either people enjoyed it or, hated it. The ones that hate it, will rattle off a litany of reasons, much of it stems from poor adult leadership, resulting in a poor experiences. Being a pivotal growth period in a young mans life, such impressions stick for life.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
This is what pandering to the left gets you. It's sad such a great organization bent over to SJW's and is no more.

It's a sad day. As a former Scout, I take no joy in what has happened to the Boy Scouts.
However, I do disagree with the direction the leadership has taken over the last 20 years and understand why membership has declined.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
At the end, it's another institution, that the most vile and arrogant of the left, will cheer and celebrate its downfall. There's a number of poor decisions that BSA made, hopefully they can recover to some degree but, I fear this is another 'symbol' the left will rejoice in its destruction and its allies in the press will gleefully trumpet.

I don't think it's only the Left that are celebrating the demise of Scouting. Threads in this forum show just as many on the Right celebrating the demise of Scouting.

Having been a Scout for many years, I do mourn the demise of Scouting. It died many years ago. I don't regret in the least the demise of this...thing....

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
This is what pandering to the left gets you. It's sad such a great organization bent over to SJW's and is no more.

It's a sad day. As a former Scout, I take no joy in what has happened to the Boy Scouts.
However, I do disagree with the direction the leadership has taken over the last 20 years and understand why membership has declined.

I was in the Scouts as well and it meant a lot to me growing up. I had already decided my son would not join the scouts and that doesn't matter since it will no longer be an option. I will try to teach him what I learned and get outdoors as much as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Current social pressures have nothing to do with why they are being sued.

All right, thanks.

Sometimes it’s hard for me to follow the commentary in these threads. This one started as a report on the lawsuits filed because of allegations of sexual abuse, and which are claimed to have occurred for many decades. Almost immediately, however, it turned into a complaint about how caving into social pressures over the past few years have changed the organization and I couldn’t understand the connection between the two. Thanks again for confirming what I believed.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:....

I am an Eagle Scout with three silver palms on my medal. OA, worked two summers as camp staff. To believe my posts are just scout bashing would be totally false. But I cannot help but think the Scouts are suffering from their own hubris at the national level. They won the SCOTUS case, then implemented the policy they argued against in that case. Is it scout bashing to disagree with scouting’s direction for the last two decades?

Seems to me some years ago BSA compromised their founding principles to be more "inclusive" of society norms, hoping to increase their membership. (My scout involvement for the past six decades has included Eagle, OA, Wood Badge, Scoutmaster, Committee Chairman)

Maybe a lesson learned, don't compromise your principles for worldly attainments.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:....

I am an Eagle Scout with three silver palms on my medal. OA, worked two summers as camp staff. To believe my posts are just scout bashing would be totally false. But I cannot help but think the Scouts are suffering from their own hubris at the national level. They won the SCOTUS case, then implemented the policy they argued against in that case. Is it scout bashing to disagree with scouting’s direction for the last two decades?

Seems to me some years ago BSA compromised their founding principles to be more "inclusive" of society norms, hoping to increase their membership. (My scout involvement for the past six decades has included Eagle, OA, Wood Badge, Scoutmaster, Committee Chairman)

Maybe a lesson learned, don't compromise your principles for worldly attainments.

...and no double standards!

I absolutely loved my scouting career. 12+ years from Tiger to Eagle. I’m very fortunate that I had excellent scout masters and a strong core of scouts.

I’m disappointed that the Boy Scouts have fallen so far. But I’m grateful for what I experienced.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

But I cannot help but think the Scouts are suffering from their own hubris at the national level. They won the SCOTUS case, then implemented the policy they argued against in that case. Is it scout bashing to disagree with scouting’s direction for the last two decades?

Exactly. It is not 'gloating' to notice that the Scouts are suffering just after they went Full SJW Retard. They crapped all over their best supporters, and then turn around and cry that their liberal policies are resulting in lack of support, and we are supposed to feel sorry for them?

I have never been a Scout, but I respect what they *used to be.* I take no joy in the demise of the Scouts, but in my opinion, they died years ago when they turned liberal.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
I had already decided my son would not join the scouts and that doesn't matter since it will no longer be an option. I will try to teach him what I learned and get outdoors as much as possible.

Curious as to why you say, "it will no longer be an option."

Many companies go through Chapter 11. Even our President filed for Chapter 11 six times (the number may be between 4 & 6, depending on how you count it).

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
I sat next to a woman on a plane recently. Her take was that girls in the boy scouts was fine. Used the term gender several times.
Making boys more like girls and vise versa benefited all bullshit.

I told her girls need to pave their own way. They can accomplish whatever they choose. It is up to them to pave their own way. No limitations, period.
I also told her we need our boys to grow into warriors. That shut her up.

I also told her the boy scouts would not survive and that if she did not believe me to seek out knowledge as to who was pushing the agenda in the last dozen or so years.

I feel badly for all of you Boy Scouts who grew into upstanding men due to the program. I really do.

+100. I’m an Eagle Scout and have been saddened by all this horseshot since it started. The scouts first mistake was not standing up at the first go round and saying NO. These are OUR values and if you don’t like them go to hell! Then, as the first wall was knocked down, the others came to take advantage (cash in, destroy an institution).

No one’s suing the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. No one’s suing the 4H’ers or Girl Scouts. I was a scout in the 70’s, one of literally millions of young men that came of age through the program over the years.
They have some money? So what? It takes money to provide the programs they are able to provide, and damn good ones at that.

Whatever....it’s just a damn shame.

It’s a take down of the institution with the deepest pockets.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Current social pressures have nothing to do with why they are being sued.

All right, thanks.

Sometimes it’s hard for me to follow the commentary in these threads. This one started as a report on the lawsuits filed because of allegations of sexual abuse, and which are claimed to have occurred for many decades. Almost immediately, however, it turned into a complaint about how caving into social pressures over the past few years have changed the organization and I couldn’t understand the connection between the two. Thanks again for confirming what I believed.

Me too.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Current social pressures have nothing to do with why they are being sued.

All right, thanks.

Sometimes it’s hard for me to follow the commentary in these threads. This one started as a report on the lawsuits filed because of allegations of sexual abuse, and which are claimed to have occurred for many decades. Almost immediately, however, it turned into a complaint about how caving into social pressures over the past few years have changed the organization and I couldn’t understand the connection between the two. Thanks again for confirming what I believed.

The connection between the two is that just as they were coming under financial pressure from lawsuits, they unnecessarily took a social stance that immediately reduced their base of support by 1/3. The SJW stance, therefore, makes it more likely that the BSA will not survive the financial hardship. There is the connection you’re missing.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

Maybe a lesson learned, don't compromise your principles for worldly attainments.

Slight thread drift!

Welcome back Scoutmaster! Hope you had a great time in Alabama! My bishop's daughter worked with you briefly, although you may not have known her.

Whew! This thread came along just in time to save me and my son. I took in all the negativity of former scouts and scouters, realized that the current organization we are a part of needs to die, and die soon.

I just got back from his room where I told him we were dropping out of scouting for good, and just in the nick of time, too! Thank you all for setting us straight! Here is our conversation, I hope the members approve of the way I handled it.

My son asked me, "Why?" I told him "The organization used to be great, but it has some problems now, so we should abandon it."

He replied, "But, Dad, a scout is Loyal, that's part of the Scout Law!"
I had to explain to him, "Son, "loyal" really means only when it is fashionable and convenient, but when it is difficult, it's better to cut and run. You know how much I respect the advice and knowledge I get from SIGforum. Look at all these older scouts from the golden years of scouting jumping ship. Clearly, loyalty means nothing."

"But, Dad, what are we going to do then?" I responded, "Nothing. No other organization has the program, camps, or facilities to compete. You see, that's why it is better to destroy it because we are unhappy with some aspects, so that no one will ever get to enjoy the scouting experience again. Better dead, than a flawed organization."

"But, Dad, what about Philmont? What about all those programs they have at summer camp? You told me those are great programs. I loved camp last year, and now you tell me we aren't going??"

"I know son, but I learned today how terrible all that is."

"Dad, you told me that when things get tough, a scout perseveres. That loyalty means working with the organization to improve, not running away when things go wrong."

"No, son, it is better to wring one's hands, gnash one's teeth and lament about how scouting was once great, but the sooner the current organization is destroyed, the better."

"But, Dad, that isn't what Scoutmaster Bob would say. That isn't what you taught me when you were my Den leader. What about all those Scoutmaster minutes talking about doing the right thing, even when it is difficult or un-popular? What about Mr. Mike, Mr. Rob, Mr. Jim, Mr. Andy and all the other ASM's? I thought you liked and respected them. You mean they are bad too? And what about all the current scouts? Are you just going to abandon them? Can't we just work hard to make our Troop good, and not worry about the others?"

"You have a point, son."

**************************************************

The above conversation may or may not have happened.

We go camping !

The National BSA does not own the local council scout camps. Each council operates as a franchisee and owns the local properties. We will still attend the local camp this summer and hope to go to Maine canoeing in 2021 with a program run by a Maine council.

Our troop is sponsored by the local Elks, and pretty much stays out of the running of the troop. While the Elks can technically choose all of the leaders it stays out of how the troop runs. I am glad our troop is allowed to be autonomous and run ourselves.

At the troop level Little has changed in how the troop is run. We follow National guidelines and training, but we pretty much run the troop the way it always has been run. I can say all of the adults involved are 100% aware of youth protection and we follow it.

We live in a very “progressive” area and we have always had good community support. Our troop leaders are politically split 50/50 and other then razing each other back and forth we all are able to respect the others views and keep it out of our program. Our parents are similar mix and we have had zero problems with them on any activity we have done. We have had multiple scouts with two mom’s and they have always been on board with the program. Not a single parent has interfered or promoted any “social justice program”.

We are a Boy’s Troop and when asked about girls, we are more then happy to point this out and get them in contact with a troop for them.

I think the scouting program offers allot of positive opportunities for youth and support it.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:


We go camping !

LOL this is a sigmonkey grade post.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:....

I am an Eagle Scout with three silver palms on my medal. OA, worked two summers as camp staff. To believe my posts are just scout bashing would be totally false. But I cannot help but think the Scouts are suffering from their own hubris at the national level. They won the SCOTUS case, then implemented the policy they argued against in that case. Is it scout bashing to disagree with scouting’s direction for the last two decades?

Seems to me some years ago BSA compromised their founding principles to be more "inclusive" of society norms, hoping to increase their membership. (My scout involvement for the past six decades has included Eagle, OA, Wood Badge, Scoutmaster, Committee Chairman)

Maybe a lesson learned, don't compromise your principles for worldly attainments.

Remember the bumper stickers that were out in the late 80s? "America is returning to the values Scouting never left."

Except they did. A Scout is Brave... unless being brave costs SME dollars and endowments, or unless standing by principles becomes too costly to defend in court. Then, all bets are off. A Scout is Loyal... unless being loyal to tradition and history hurts enrollment (and, by extension, dues.) Or unless we're talking about loyalty to the original purposes of the organization, as set out in the Congressional charter.

Yeah, that pesky charter, granted by Congress. The one that reads, in part:
"The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916."

I'm wondering why nobody has made a move on the charter in the past few years, given that they seem to have abandoned-- WHOLESALE-- their corporate purpose.

I parted ways with BSA more than 20 years ago. I miss the organization that was.