quote:

Originally posted by cooger:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
My double cab Tacoma has plenty of room in the back seat and tows 6000 lbs. Mine is now 11 years old has over 177,000 miles on it and drives as good as the day I drove it off the lot.

What kind of gas mileage do you get?

In town, I get between 17-21 MPG. The MPG is not great but it is mechanically perfect which has a cost savings all its own. A Chevrolet Colorado with the Duramax diesel engine gets substantially better mileage but I don’t know its tow rating and I doubt it would have the quality of a Tacoma over time.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
For your described needs I'd buy a used Tacoma double cab and never look back.

I looked at buying a used Tacoma back in 2007 when I bought mine. However, what I found was that for only 4-6k more, I could get a new Tacoma. Moreover, the used ones had mileage in the 40-60k range. Tacoma’s at least then, really held their value. So much so, that a new one made more sense long-term from a financial perspective.

Edited to add that my Tacoma is the double cab TRD with the long-bed. It actually has a wheel base that rivals a Suburban so it tows well, I can sleep in the back. You don’t see a of double cab long beds because they are so big but they do give you a lot of capability.

I just took a picture of mine. As you can see, it also hasn’t rusted over the 11 years I’ve had it despite living in a snow state. Click on the picture to enlarge. When you do, imageshack.com will ask for paypal, etc. Just hit the “x” and it will go away and the picture will show. For some reason, Imageshack thinks people will pay them.

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

the colorado/canyon diesel gets good mileage and can tow 7700lbs

I'd get the canyon but I'm bias, I've got one.

Problem with diesels is your gonna spend around 30-50 cents more per gallon. Takes a lot of mpg to offset fuel costs compared to a gas. Then you have all the emissions that adds more complexity and expense compared to gas. Get a diesel that uses def you need to add the def into the fuel costs and most people don’t factor that in. The short of it is diesels cost a lot more to maintain and run than a gas rig.

I consistently get ~22 mpg in my 2016 Colorado. I drive a mix of highway and heavy traffic on my commute. I can get 26 mpg babying it on long highway drives.

quote:

Originally posted by roadkill:
Problem with diesels is your gonna spend around 30-50 cents more per gallon. Takes a lot of mpg to offset fuel costs compared to a gas. Then you have all the emissions that adds more complexity and expense compared to gas. Get a diesel that uses def you need to add the def into the fuel costs and most people don’t factor that in. The short of it is diesels cost a lot more to maintain and run than a gas rig.

I've gone through a lengthly explanation of why diesels aren't such a great deal for most applications, many times, on this board. Literally the next post will be "Get a diesel!!" Nobody cares that the TCO of diesel is often higher after factoring maintenance costs, upfront purchase price, extra fuel costs, emissions maintenance, etc. They still get recommended for somebody pulling a trailer with a single lawnmower.

I should know. I spend $88,000 a year on diesel fuel, and average $20,000 in maintenance. Per truck. That is why my pickup is a gas vehicle.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
My 2015 F-150 SuperCrew seats 5 comfortably and a 6th if I put the center console up on the front seat.

2.7L EcoBoost engine has averaged 20mpg over 50K+ miles. Only problem I have had is my wife hitting things or other cars hitting it

When I was shopping no such thing as discounts on a Toyota trucks and I was able to go full-size for about $3000 more than the similar equipped Frontier or Tacoma.

Sticker was $43K, but after discounts/rebates ended up paying $36K and change.

I imagine used market right now would be in the $25-$27K range.

I had a pretty loaded XLT Sport with the 2.7
Sticker was around $48k, got it for a bit over $10k off sticker.

I imagine used ones in XLT trim could be had in the OP's range.

I put 33k on mine & the only issue I had was a rattly/squeaky sunroof.

Edit: 2 years of fuel tracking on mine here:
TL;DR: Average 19.4 MPG, Best: 23.1 MPG.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford.../2016/p250ua5/509768

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by roadkill:
Problem with diesels is your gonna spend around 30-50 cents more per gallon. Takes a lot of mpg to offset fuel costs compared to a gas. Then you have all the emissions that adds more complexity and expense compared to gas. Get a diesel that uses def you need to add the def into the fuel costs and most people don’t factor that in. The short of it is diesels cost a lot more to maintain and run than a gas rig.

I've gone through a lengthly explanation of why diesels aren't such a great deal for most applications, many times, on this board. Literally the next post will be "Get a diesel!!" Nobody cares that the TCO of diesel is often higher after factoring maintenance costs, upfront purchase price, extra fuel costs, emissions maintenance, etc. They still get recommended for somebody pulling a trailer with a single lawnmower.

I should know. I spend $88,000 a year on diesel fuel, and average $20,000 in maintenance. Per truck. That is why my pickup is a gas vehicle.

What you're saying about diesels hasn't fallen on deaf ears. I've run the numbers a few times and there is no break even. Small diesels make zero economic sense in this country at this point in time. The only place you can make a case for a diesel is towing more than 14,000-15,000lbs and only because a gasoline engine alternative isn't available.

Back on topic. I'd be looking at a mid-size truck if I was only towing a trailer around 3,000lbs loaded. I used to tow an enclosed trailer with two motorcycles with a 2001 Dodge Dakota 4.7 V8 and a 5 speed manual. I made at least 4 trips from Naples, FL to Brainerd, MN and back. It was a great combination. The truck I'd really get for your purpose would have been the Ford Ranger that was discontinued in 2011 or so.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by roadkill:
Problem with diesels is your gonna spend around 30-50 cents more per gallon. Takes a lot of mpg to offset fuel costs compared to a gas. Then you have all the emissions that adds more complexity and expense compared to gas. Get a diesel that uses def you need to add the def into the fuel costs and most people don’t factor that in. The short of it is diesels cost a lot more to maintain and run than a gas rig.

I've gone through a lengthly explanation of why diesels aren't such a great deal for most applications, many times, on this board. Literally the next post will be "Get a diesel!!" Nobody cares that the TCO of diesel is often higher after factoring maintenance costs, upfront purchase price, extra fuel costs, emissions maintenance, etc. They still get recommended for somebody pulling a trailer with a single lawnmower.

I should know. I spend $88,000 a year on diesel fuel, and average $20,000 in maintenance. Per truck. That is why my pickup is a gas vehicle.

sigcrazy7, I live close to you and have found my Nissan Armada can’t really handle the pulls out of Bear Lake to Logan Canyon or Ashton to Island Park, etc. despite being well within all limits (I’ve actually taken my Armada and trailer onto a CAT scale for weighing). What makes a good tow vehicle in the Rocky Mountains in your experience otuside of a diesel? Serious question as I am trying to decide what to get to tow as my Armada can’t handle it? Thread drift off.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:

quote:

Originally posted by cooger:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
My double cab Tacoma has plenty of room in the back seat and tows 6000 lbs. Mine is now 11 years old has over 177,000 miles on it and drives as good as the day I drove it off the lot.

What kind of gas mileage do you get?

In town, I get between 17-21 MPG. The MPG is not great but it is mechanically perfect which has a cost savings all its own. A Chevrolet Colorado with the Duramax diesel engine gets substantially better mileage but I don’t know its tow rating and I doubt it would have the quality of a Tacoma over time.

My Tacoma is a 2007 Access Cab and gets the same mileage.

One bit of advice - DO NOT get a dark blue one. (Just look around at the paint on the older ones. )

Hey, you just need another F150.

My wife still has her new 2001 F150 crew cab. It's still a nice reliable truck with 150K miles. Gets about 20 mpg with the 4.6L V-8, 2 wheel drive. No squeaks or rattles.

I had a 2012 F150 crew cab 2WD with the V-8. I got about 22 MPG on the highway. The seats were not comfortable for the wife on long trips. Otherwise a nice reliable car.

I traded the 2012 for a 2016 F150 super crew 4WD with the V-8. It gets over 22 MPG on the highway. At 55 MPH and no traffic lights, I get 26 MPG! The back seat is HUGE. It has the 3.31 axle, and is rated to tow 8,000 lbs. The V-8 has plenty of power.

These are all XLT models.

Ridgeline.

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
My last Tundra, a 4.0L V6 4x2, never got more than 19.75 mpg on the highway at 75+ MPH, but it cost less than $400 in repairs over the first 300K miles.

What year was that Tundra?

It was a 2006. I sold it a few months ago for $6K with 344K miles. New owner can take it to $500K, no doubt in my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by roadkill:
Problem with diesels is your gonna spend around 30-50 cents more per gallon. Takes a lot of mpg to offset fuel costs compared to a gas. Then you have all the emissions that adds more complexity and expense compared to gas. Get a diesel that uses def you need to add the def into the fuel costs and most people don’t factor that in. The short of it is diesels cost a lot more to maintain and run than a gas rig.

I've gone through a lengthly explanation of why diesels aren't such a great deal for most applications, many times, on this board. Literally the next post will be "Get a diesel!!" Nobody cares that the TCO of diesel is often higher after factoring maintenance costs, upfront purchase price, extra fuel costs, emissions maintenance, etc. They still get recommended for somebody pulling a trailer with a single lawnmower.

I should know. I spend $88,000 a year on diesel fuel, and average $20,000 in maintenance. Per truck. That is why my pickup is a gas vehicle.

sigcrazy7, I live close to you and have found my Nissan Armada can’t really handle the pulls out of Bear Lake to Logan Canyon or Ashton to Island Park, etc. despite being well within all limits (I’ve actually taken my Armada and trailer onto a CAT scale for weighing). What makes a good tow vehicle in the Rocky Mountains in your experience otuside of a diesel? Serious question as I am trying to decide what to get to tow as my Armada can’t handle it? Thread drift off.

It really hinges on what your definition of “can’t handle it” is. Do you mean that your braking is insufficient, your transmission overheats, the vehicle is unstable? Or do you mean that you want to maintain normal speed, no matter what? Probably because I’m a truck driver above all else, I’m usually content to go up hills slower, while putting a premium on everything else (braking, stability, drivetrain). Therefore, I don’t feel the need for huge power in a pickup. My pickup is a bone stock TBI 350 in a 3/4 ton. It is sloooow and heavy.

Having said that, I have a buddy who insists on taking every hill at 80mph, regardless of load. He has a 2015 F150 with the 3.6? Eco boost, and couldn’t be happier. He claims it pulls harder than anything he’s ever had.

If you want something big, my brother has a Suburban with a 454CID V-8 and a 4:11 rearend. Two things it doesn’t do: It doesn’t slow down for hills, and it doesn’t drive past gas stations.

My recommendation for you, and for the OP, would be the F150. Especially if you need the occasional towing and also need it as a daily driver, but don’t need to haul rocks or scrap steel in the aluminum bed. I’m not a Ford guy, so this is me being highly objective here, and giving praise where praise is due. The F150 Eco boost seems to have some mojo.

quote:

Originally posted by RIC.45:
Research the Ram Ecodiesels. 1/2 ton diesel came out in 2014. 9,200lb towing capacity.


Rick

This was going to be my suggestion as well.
I have the EcoDiesel engine in my Grand Cherokee and get 30 mpg on the highway..nothing else will come close.
Yes you will have slightly higher maintenance but it's worth it in the long run. (Sounds like you are like me and keep your vehicles for a while).

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:

quote:

Originally posted by RIC.45:
Research the Ram Ecodiesels. 1/2 ton diesel came out in 2014. 9,200lb towing capacity.


Rick

This was going to be my suggestion as well.
I have the EcoDiesel engine in my Grand Cherokee and get 30 mpg on the highway..nothing else will come close.
Yes you will have slightly higher maintenance but it's worth it in the long run. (Sounds like you are like me and keep your vehicles for a while).

Ha! I said it would happen.

You don’t get 30mpg. You get somewhere around 26-27 mpg EQUILIVANT to gasoline. Diesel costs 10% more per gallon on average, plus the cost of DEF. I could add up all the other extra costs of going the diesel route, but diesel owners don’t care. Ford’s new 3.0 ecoboost is rated at 30mpg highway with 11,400 lbs towing. This smashes the diesel, while doing it on a cheaper fuel burning in an engine that is easier and cheaper to maintain. There is no way to look at diesel as the better option, no matter what metric you use. The only place diesel makes any logical sense is in machinery, CMV trucks (including hotshots), and stationary power units.

My first car was a diesel rabbit. In those days, diesel fuel was cheaper than gasoline, diesel was the base option for VW (gas was an upcharge), there was no aftertreatment, and it got great mileage. However, it’s not 1985 anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by roadkill:
Problem with diesels is your gonna spend around 30-50 cents more per gallon. Takes a lot of mpg to offset fuel costs compared to a gas. Then you have all the emissions that adds more complexity and expense compared to gas. Get a diesel that uses def you need to add the def into the fuel costs and most people don’t factor that in. The short of it is diesels cost a lot more to maintain and run than a gas rig.

I've gone through a lengthly explanation of why diesels aren't such a great deal for most applications, many times, on this board. Literally the next post will be "Get a diesel!!" Nobody cares that the TCO of diesel is often higher after factoring maintenance costs, upfront purchase price, extra fuel costs, emissions maintenance, etc. They still get recommended for somebody pulling a trailer with a single lawnmower.

I should know. I spend $88,000 a year on diesel fuel, and average $20,000 in maintenance. Per truck. That is why my pickup is a gas vehicle.

sigcrazy7, I live close to you and have found my Nissan Armada can’t really handle the pulls out of Bear Lake to Logan Canyon or Ashton to Island Park, etc. despite being well within all limits (I’ve actually taken my Armada and trailer onto a CAT scale for weighing). What makes a good tow vehicle in the Rocky Mountains in your experience otuside of a diesel? Serious question as I am trying to decide what to get to tow as my Armada can’t handle it? Thread drift off.

It really hinges on what your definition of “can’t handle it” is. Do you mean that your braking is insufficient, your transmission overheats, the vehicle is unstable? Or do you mean that you want to maintain normal speed, no matter what? Probably because I’m a truck driver above all else, I’m usually content to go up hills slower, while putting a premium on everything else (braking, stability, drivetrain). Therefore, I don’t feel the need for huge power in a pickup. My pickup is a bone stock TBI 350 in a 3/4 ton. It is sloooow and heavy.

Thanks. I failed to mention that it is a power problem. I was going about 13 MPH and close to redline by the time I made it up the dugway. I have an equalizer hitch, trailer brake controler etc. and don’t have any braking or trailering problems. As for speed, I’m not a fast driver as I think someone pulling needs to drive cautiously. For me, I was more concerned that I would overheat and/or need another chipmunk or two to make it up and over.

Thanks for the reply. I’ll look at the Ford. I do have one benefit for any truck I buy, I only live two miles from where I work so I don’t put many miles on my vehicles.

I prefer an SUV over a pickup because the stuff I carry is dry and protected from theft. Anyways. An eco boost Ford Edge or Explorer would be fuel efficient and be able to tow what you're towing and in your price range. Another option would be a 2014+ F150 ecoboost 2.7 Liter.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:

quote:

Originally posted by RIC.45:
Research the Ram Ecodiesels. 1/2 ton diesel came out in 2014. 9,200lb towing capacity.


Rick

This was going to be my suggestion as well.
I have the EcoDiesel engine in my Grand Cherokee and get 30 mpg on the highway..nothing else will come close.
Yes you will have slightly higher maintenance but it's worth it in the long run. (Sounds like you are like me and keep your vehicles for a while).

Ha! I said it would happen.

You don’t get 30mpg. You get somewhere around 26-27 mpg EQUILIVANT to gasoline. Diesel costs 10% more per gallon on average, plus the cost of DEF. I could add up all the other extra costs of going the diesel route, but diesel owners don’t care. Ford’s new 3.0 ecoboost is rated at 30mpg highway with 11,400 lbs towing. This smashes the diesel, while doing it on a cheaper fuel burning in an engine that is easier and cheaper to maintain. There is no way to look at diesel as the better option, no matter what metric you use. The only place diesel makes any logical sense is in machinery, CMV trucks (including hotshots), and stationary power units.

Not sure which Ford 3.0L you're talking about. The only one listed on the website is a Powerstroke diesel.

Yep, you are right. I was looking at the diesel to discredit diesels. Doh!


Since my argument is gas vs diesel, to be fair, lets see if my argument is still valid by comparing Fords. Looks like the 3.0L diesel has a combined rating of 25mpg, while the 3.3L gasoline is rated at 22 combined. Say you were looking for a Ford F150 and were trying to decide between the gasoline or diesel. The breakdown looks like this:

Fuel prices at the Love's outside my window on 9/28. $2.899 gas. 3.589 diesel. Bulk DEF 2.769

3.3L Gasoline, 4.5 gal / 100 miles (22mpg) = 4.5*2.899 = $13.045 or 13.05 cents a mile.
3.0L Diesel, 4.0 gal / 100 miles (25mpg) = 4.0*3.589 = $14.356, + DEF @ 1% dosing = 1.1 cent. Total 15.46 cents a mile.

Right from the start, the gasoline option is $.024 cheaper per mile to operate, before figuring in upfront costs and maintenance. I believe the upgrade option from the 3.3l to the 3.0l diesel is $2700. This is money down the hole, since you aren't realizing any operational savings, but actually loosing more money per mile with the diesel. Many other items, like oil changes, are also up-charged on diesel services. How about additives, like Howells, during subzero weather. Or DPF/DOC maintenance. My neighbor just had $800 worth of injectors done on his GM pickup with about 100K miles. My gas engine in my truck has 198,000 without being touched beyond routine maintenance. The list goes on.

In short, gasoline engines are:
Cheaper to buy.
Cheaper to operate.
Cheaper to maintain.

*The mileage numbers were taken from fueleconomy.gov Both pickups were 2WD models.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...rd_F150_Pickup.shtml