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Negotiating insurance claim, not at fault. Tips and suggestions welcome Login/Join 
Mark1Mod0Squid
Picture of Sigolicious
posted
Had a guy pull a left hand turn in front of me through a gap in traffic. Hit him at about 30mph, I never even touched the brakes. Took most of the front of his prius off and did good damage to my 2017 Toyota Tacoma. There is significant damage to the upper and lower control arms and coil tower behind the left front wheel of my truck. He was the at fault driver as per his admission and the responding officer and we both have Geico Insurance. My truck sits at the dealer where we bought it awaiting the adjuster to look at it on tuesday.

No injuries to myself, the other driver, or his son. This is the silver lining. That and he was really cool as was I. So the whole thing has been smooth as far as that goes. Just waiting to the insurance company to start their games.

Couple of things, my airbags did not deploy. I mentioned this to the adjuster that I want the airbag system checked and she said she would note that in her write up. While waiting for the write up I have read a little about "diminished value". Virginia is a diminished value sate and I have already got the KBB/NADA/Edmunds scores for value. After I get her estimate for damages up I plan to ask her about this and then go to the dealer for a valuation of the vehicle.

Anyone have tips on negotiating for diminished value? Anyone ever successfully negotiated for diminished value? Truck is 13 months old and was purchased new.



_____________________________________________
Never use more than three words to say "I don't know"



 
Posts: 2026 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
In the yahd, not too
fah from the cah
Picture of ryan81986
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DV was part of my job when I handled accident investigations and claims.

Diminished value will need to be filed against the other party's policy in your state, as you can't file first party for it. The insurance company will run an evaluation based on the number of miles on the vehicle, it's current value and the total amount of damage.

They'll then calculate an amount (Most likely using the 17c formula) and present it to you. Not sure how Geico handles if someone doesn't agree with their amount. I know on some stuff they're known to just tell people to eat shit if they don't like it. But since you're also an insured they may barter on it. They may also advise you to get your own DV evaluation on your own at your expense if you disagree.




 
Posts: 6337 | Location: Just outside of Boston | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Pay for a good workup by a reputable DV specialist. This is pricey. $250+

Make sure it follows USPAP standards.
 
Posts: 3468 | Registered: January 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Truth Wins
Picture of Micropterus
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I handle insurance claims in Virginia.

Typically, if a vehicle is repaired properly using OEM parts, there shouldn't be much, if any, Diminution In Value (DIV). However, there may be some for the simple fact the vehicle was involved in an accident at all.

Do not bother getting a pre-accident, post-repair value quote from a place like Car Max. The NEVER work. The value of your vehicle in Virginia is not going to be based on a book (NADA, Blue book, etc). It is going to be based on a market survey. Good thing is, SUVs and trucks tend to retain their values in Virginia better than most states.

The get an accurate value, you will most likely want to use a professional appraiser who can support his valuation. And to win in court, should you decide to go that route, you will need three values:

1) the value of the vehicle pre-accident
2) the value of the vehicle post-accident but pre-repair (value of the vehicle with the unrepaired damage on it)
3) the value of the vehicle post-repair

(People sue a lot in Virginia General District Courts and insurers win all the time based on the claimant not getting #2.)

If the repairs weren't done properly, take it up with the shop. It has to be done right and you need good appraisals to win a DIV fight with an insurer in Virginia. DIV claims are tgough to prove in Virginia and then are rarely worth that much if the repairs were done right. A court won't hold an insurer responsible for much DIV, if any, if the repairs aren't perfect.


_____________
"I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau
 
Posts: 4285 | Location: In The Swamp | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
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Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
Why are you negotiating?


————————————————
The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad.
If we got each other, and that's all we have.
I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand.
You should know I'll be there for you!
 
Posts: 25354 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mark1Mod0Squid
Picture of Sigolicious
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Thank you for this information. I haven't yet come to the point of deciding that I need to go this route, just exploring the options. My main concern is that if we do resell or trade in the future that there is no lost value. According to most things I have read, even if the repair is properly done, there is a good chance we will take a hit on value at resale.

Since this is my wife's truck and she isn't happy about driving an otherwise new truck with this large a repair, we are considering just trading it in shortly after the repairs are complete. So all of this is just part of considering the available options.

quote:
Originally posted by Micropterus:
Snip

.....Typically, if a vehicle is repaired properly using OEM parts, there shouldn't be much, if any, Diminution In Value (DIV). However, there may be some for the simple fact the vehicle was involved in an accident at all........

The get an accurate value, you will most likely want to use a professional appraiser who can support his valuation. And to win in court, should you decide to go that route, you will need three values:

1) the value of the vehicle pre-accident
2) the value of the vehicle post-accident but pre-repair (value of the vehicle with the unrepaired damage on it)
3) the value of the vehicle post-repair




I assume "why me" rather than an attorney? Because there isn't enough value in any claim i have to get an attorney involved at this point. However I am still in the assessment phase and that isn't off the table.

quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Why are you negotiating?


_____________________________________________
Never use more than three words to say "I don't know"



 
Posts: 2026 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
the truth will set you free
Picture of ilikefirearms
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Sorry to hear about your wreck. That’s not a deployment event. Your airbag is designed to go off at a hreshold level a little higher than that damage would indicate.


Conan! What is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.
 
Posts: 1508 | Registered: September 29, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sigolicious:
Thank you for this information. I haven't yet come to the point of deciding that I need to go this route, just exploring the options. My main concern is that if we do resell or trade in the future that there is no lost value. According to most things I have read, even if the repair is properly done, there is a good chance we will take a hit on value at resale.

Since this is my wife's truck and she isn't happy about driving an otherwise new truck with this large a repair, we are considering just trading it in shortly after the repairs are complete. So all of this is just part of considering the available options.

quote:
Originally posted by Micropterus:
Snip

.....Typically, if a vehicle is repaired properly using OEM parts, there shouldn't be much, if any, Diminution In Value (DIV). However, there may be some for the simple fact the vehicle was involved in an accident at all........

The get an accurate value, you will most likely want to use a professional appraiser who can support his valuation. And to win in court, should you decide to go that route, you will need three values:

1) the value of the vehicle pre-accident
2) the value of the vehicle post-accident but pre-repair (value of the vehicle with the unrepaired damage on it)
3) the value of the vehicle post-repair




I assume "why me" rather than an attorney? Because there isn't enough value in any claim i have to get an attorney involved at this point. However I am still in the assessment phase and that isn't off the table.

quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Why are you negotiating?


I would presume you have full coverage insurance on your tuck being that new. Your insurance should be fighting it for you. That is what you pay them for.


————————————————
The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad.
If we got each other, and that's all we have.
I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand.
You should know I'll be there for you!
 
Posts: 25354 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mark1Mod0Squid
Picture of Sigolicious
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
quote:
Originally posted by Sigolicious:

I assume "why me" rather than an attorney? Because there isn't enough value in any claim i have to get an attorney involved at this point. However I am still in the assessment phase and that isn't off the table.

quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Why are you negotiating?


I would presume you have full coverage insurance on your tuck being that new. Your insurance should be fighting it for you. That is what you pay them for.


You are correct, but........When both the at fault and myself have Geico, I don't think there is incentive for it to work that way. I shall soon to find out.


_____________________________________________
Never use more than three words to say "I don't know"



 
Posts: 2026 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sigolicious:
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
quote:
Originally posted by Sigolicious:

I assume "why me" rather than an attorney? Because there isn't enough value in any claim i have to get an attorney involved at this point. However I am still in the assessment phase and that isn't off the table.

quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Why are you negotiating?


I would presume you have full coverage insurance on your tuck being that new. Your insurance should be fighting it for you. That is what you pay them for.


You are correct, but........When both the at fault and myself have Geico, I don't think there is incentive for it to work that way. I shall soon to find out.


Kind of. You are still their client and it is their job to make you whole even if that comes at a cost to them being that it was another client of their that was at fault.

The incentive is keeping you as a client.

If they are not willing to give you what you are truely owed because another client of theirs caused the loss I would look to another insurer.


————————————————
The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad.
If we got each other, and that's all we have.
I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand.
You should know I'll be there for you!
 
Posts: 25354 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
Ouch that it was a 2017.

Why don't you call your Geico agent and ask your questions? Some companies have a deal if both sides are customers as they save money by not having to deal with another company.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 19582 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mark1Mod0Squid
Picture of Sigolicious
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ryan81986:
DV was part of my job when I handled accident investigations and claims.

Diminished value will need to be filed against the other party's policy in your state, as you can't file first party for it. The insurance company will run an evaluation based on the number of miles on the vehicle, it's current value and the total amount of damage.

They'll then calculate an amount (Most likely using the 17c formula) and present it to you. Not sure how Geico handles if someone doesn't agree with their amount. I know on some stuff they're known to just tell people to eat shit if they don't like it. But since you're also an insured they may barter on it. They may also advise you to get your own DV evaluation on your own at your expense if you disagree.



quote:
Originally posted by Scurvy:
Pay for a good workup by a reputable DV specialist. This is pricey. $250+

Make sure it follows USPAP standards.



Spoke to my Toyota service advisor today. She has a contact for me to get a certified DV appraisal. Not sure yet of cost, but I'll find out tomorrow. Also spoke to my salesman from when we bought the truck and he said I definitely need to do this as if we were to trade in they would offer us less with the accident on the carfax.


quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:
Ouch that it was a 2017.

Why don't you call your Geico agent and ask your questions? Some companies have a deal if both sides are customers as they save money by not having to deal with another company.



I plan on addressing this with the adjuster tomorrow and then I will have a better idea which way this will flow.

At this point I am just working on getting a feel for all of my options. Wife and I bought this truck for a very specific purpose. She retires from active duty in 7 months and we bought a 70 acre piece of property in AZ that is 45minutes from pavement. My issue at this point is I will still have confidence in this truck to last and perform the way we expect during some other than pavement use when we get out to the ranch. So I am looking at what it will take to get us back to that position, which may include trading it in. At which point I am not up for taking a bath on the trade in because of the accident.


_____________________________________________
Never use more than three words to say "I don't know"



 
Posts: 2026 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
quote:
we bought a 70 acre piece of property in AZ that is 45minutes from pavement


AWESOME!!


————————————————
The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad.
If we got each other, and that's all we have.
I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand.
You should know I'll be there for you!
 
Posts: 25354 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mark1Mod0Squid
Picture of Sigolicious
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
quote:
we bought a 70 acre piece of property in AZ that is 45minutes from pavement


AWESOME!!


Why yes, yes it is........



As an update. Talked directly with the adjuster today and she assured me that even though both parties have the same insurance company, she is working for me. On that note she said she will file the paperwork for the diminished value claim after she does the inspection tomorrow. She also said that I need to get the DV appraisal and that her experience is with a newer vehicle it almost always gets paid at the highest appraisal.

Wish me luck boys!


_____________________________________________
Never use more than three words to say "I don't know"



 
Posts: 2026 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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good thing it was a Tacoma. I have 2017 (Inferno orange as well, BTW) and i was at the dealer today getting my 4runner serviced and i noticed it would cost me just about as much to replace it today with 12k miles on it as what i paid new 15 months ago.

The bad news is if that frame is bent, it will never be right. I'd have a really good body shop look at that before going down the road of repairing it and id lean towards getting a new truck.
 
Posts: 4736 | Location: Florida Panhandle  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Truth Wins
Picture of Micropterus
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sigolicious:


I assume "why me" rather than an attorney? Because there isn't enough value in any claim i have to get an attorney involved at this point. However I am still in the assessment phase and that isn't off the table.



You don't need a lawyer to file in General District Court. Unless someone has an attorney for an injury claim, post people never use an attorney to sue for DIV. And most will loose because they miss step #2.


_____________
"I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau
 
Posts: 4285 | Location: In The Swamp | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Truth Wins
Picture of Micropterus
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sigolicious:
You are correct, but........When both the at fault and myself have Geico, I don't think there is incentive for it to work that way. I shall soon to find out.


It doesn't work that way regardless. Your insurer can only fight another insurer when your insurer has paid you something they want back from the other insurer. It's called subrogation. In other words, what you were legally allowed to collect from the other insurer was paid by your insurer, now your insurer assumes your right to get it from the other insurer. With respect to something your insurer hasn't paid, they cannot pursue it for you. They are not your attorney. You'll have to pursue it yourself.


_____________
"I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau
 
Posts: 4285 | Location: In The Swamp | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
In the yahd, not too
fah from the cah
Picture of ryan81986
posted Hide Post
No way the frame is bent with that minimal damage.

Also wait and see what you get offered for DV before paying for a third party DV evaluation. Keep in mind as well, that DV is all subjective. It is only PERCEIVED loss, since you may not actually lose anything. If you trade in the car the day after you get the damage repaired odds are the accident won't pull on a carfax report and the dealer won't even know, plus there is no set formula for what a dealer takes off because a car was in an accident. I've seen dealers threaten to take $2k off by default for any accident, even if it was minor cosmetic damage. And I had to explain to the vehicle owner that since their damage was minor, they weren't getting any DV from us.




 
Posts: 6337 | Location: Just outside of Boston | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
In the yahd, not too
fah from the cah
Picture of ryan81986
posted Hide Post
One more thing, just because you get a third party DV report doesn't mean you're going to get that amount. I've had people send me DV reports that were complete nonsense and didn't take into account the actual damages to the car and just took a set percentage off based on "minor, moderate and severe" damage. And I threw those reports away.

Buyer beware.




 
Posts: 6337 | Location: Just outside of Boston | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mark1Mod0Squid
Picture of Sigolicious
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Adjuster did her thing today. She was very cool about everything and answered all the questions nicely. Maybe not answers I wanted, but she was nice and understanding of my concerns. Current damage estimate is $8900. However she feels that will go up based on damage in inaccessible areas, there will be supplements. The front crossmember of the frame is bent and she thinks the frame might need repair so she added in to have it put on the frame machine. She also added in to have the airbags checked because she believes based on experience that they should have deployed.

I wasn't happy that the adjuster/Geico won't specify OEM parts for the repair, however my service advisor said she is sure she can get Toyota to price match any aftermarket parts and do it all OEM.

Also my service advisor gave me the card for a licensed DV appraiser and I spoke to him. He will do his appraisal and he is very confidant there will be a diminished value payout. He said the things in my favor are, not at fault, new vehicle, and that Geico is always good about both paying out and especially paying out without interference when they insure both parties.

So for now things appear to be on track and when the repairs are complete I'll be pursuing the rest of the solution.


_____________________________________________
Never use more than three words to say "I don't know"



 
Posts: 2026 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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