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Originally posted by sigfreund:
And yes, I’m glad that Korea didn’t turn into the first large scale nuclear war even though we now know that the Soviets probably weren’t in a position to respond in kind immediately. I hope that anyone with an above-room-temperature IQ and any knowledge of military history whatsoever agrees.

I don't think it was a nuclear war that Truman et.al. was concerned about so much. Although, the Russians dropping a nuke on our troops in Korea might have been a concern. Rather, it was the concern that they might invade western Europe and Berlin. They had a lot of troops in the Warsaw pact countries.

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Originally posted by divil:
Although it is a bit long on youtube there is a lecture delivered by Thomas Ricks that basically states that General O.P. Smith and his outstanding leadership helped keep the 1st Marine Division from becoming a division sized frozen Little Big Horn massacre.

The book Breakout by Martin Russ is a good and informative read, yet there is a bit of a disparaging undertone toward the Army troops also at Chosin.

The Army trops did not have the unit cohesiveness, invididual toughness, or leadership quality that the Marines had but they provided crucial peotection to the Marine's right flank.

A good but somewhat dry read is Roy E. Appleman's East if Chosin. It does a good job of describing how the Army troops of east of Chosin met their fate.

I read the book Breakout and it is a good read. What a terrible, desperate, bloody, frozen battle that was.

Many of our KIA's were buried along the way during the breakout and some bodies were never recovered from north of the DMZ. When I was in South Korea in 2009 locals were still showing up at our gate with ID cards, dog tags, and personal effects, etc. of troops reportedly killed in the breakout, hoping for some reward for helping locate the missing. Those materials and information are sent to the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency (“DPAA”) at Hickam AFB in Hawaii for verification and correlation with known missing.

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Originally posted by Sigmund:

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Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

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So which is it? Did MacArthur really had victory in his grasp and was pulled back by Washington / Truman or was it a blunder of MacArthur that he fell into the trap?

MacArthur was socializing back in Japan. It was LtGen Edward Almond's inability to see a massive Chinese army even when it was at his doorstep. Had he listened more to Smith and Walker, the battle would have went much better from the U.S. perspective.

What about five months earlier when the North Koreans crossed the 38th parallel? How did MacArthur's staff miss that?

I believe McA did ok with the DPRK fight, Inchon and all, but gave the sycophant Almond too much control by Chosin. Calling the 300,000 man PRC army nothing but spoiling attacks by the DPRK troops is what I was referencing.

When I arrived in Korea, I was issued a copy of "This Kind of War." Likely the best history of the conflict.

As I recal, China had no issue of the South Korean Army advanced north from the border. United Nation troops (U.S.) was another issue. Ne of my professors in college was a newly minted lieutenant in the Marines. He remarked that they new the Chinese were in North Korea and in increasing numbers. As for the retreat from the Chozen Resivoir he only told how his scout platoon was next up to attack. A British office stopped him and said "We'll have a go at that."

MacAuthor was insubordinate. One example, the the Midway meeting with Truman, his plane arrived first but kept flying in circles until after Truman's plane landed.

https://www.amazon.com/This-Ki...ersary/dp/1574883348

MacArthur couldn't keep his mouth shut which pissed off Truman.

Chiang Kai-Shek wanted to get into the War, so could you imagine Chinese from Taiwan fighting mainland Chinese with UN troops trying to determine who's the good guy?

And, Syngman Rhee, SK president at the time kept meddling in the peace talks.

Rhee ran for reelection when I was there. His opponent disappeared, only to be found floating in the Hahn river.

Just talking with my 98 year old father. He was an Army medic in Korea. While his memory is somewhat spotty, he certainly hasn't forgotten the Chosin.

In a nutshell, he said they chased the enemy all the way to Chinese border where they ran out of ammunition. They then got chased back to the Chosin area where they held.

He said everybody fought regardless of job. He has pictures of the road they marched down with a wall of frozen bodies stacked on each side all along the route.

He also referred to MacArthur as a "damned braggart"

Glad I wasn't there

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Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

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Originally posted by Sigmund:

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Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

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So which is it? Did MacArthur really had victory in his grasp and was pulled back by Washington / Truman or was it a blunder of MacArthur that he fell into the trap?

MacArthur was socializing back in Japan. It was LtGen Edward Almond's inability to see a massive Chinese army even when it was at his doorstep. Had he listened more to Smith and Walker, the battle would have went much better from the U.S. perspective.

What about five months earlier when the North Koreans crossed the 38th parallel? How did MacArthur's staff miss that?

I believe McA did ok with the DPRK fight, Inchon and all, but gave the sycophant Almond too much control by Chosin. Calling the 300,000 man PRC army nothing but spoiling attacks by the DPRK troops is what I was referencing.

I have not finished my Chosin/Korean war reasearch yet, but books that I have read by Bill Sloan and others led me to think that Almond not recognizing the Chinese threat and the vastness of the number of infiltrated Chinese troops in October 1950 was not his doing alone.

MacArthur and his vast (near limitless ego) buoyed by his being the defactor Emperor of Japan since late 1945 and his decades of high society living in the pre WWII Philippines lead him to wrong think he was an experet with the "oriental mind". MacArthur never thought that The Chicoms would fight for North Korea.This mastaken belief coupled with the accolades that came with tactical brilliance of Inchon landings led MacArthur to hubris of galactic proportions.

MacArthur favored yessmen, and Almond wanted to secure MacArthur's favor by making sure the intellgence he found backed MacArthur's statements that red China would not enter the war. Almond maniplated the intelligence findings to reflect what his boss predicted.

My dad was in Korea in the USMC, but he didn't see any action since he worked in the office of an aviation observation squadron. However, he did meet Ed McMahon there since he was a USMC pilot.

My father-in-law was in Korea for 3 tours. He was there pre-war in the later '40's, '50 and near the end of the campaign. He saw action while in the 7th and 24th Divisions, but mostly while in the 24th.

I was reading what wikipedia had on the Chosin Reservoir mess toda to him, and he was telling me many details left out of the account. Really neato to be able to get actual history from an eye witness.

I was a Plank Owner and served on the USS Chosin a Baseline 4 Guided Missile Cruiser named after that battle. I was very fortunate to meet a bunch of those old fellows at commissioning and when they visited the ship. Those guys had some stories! Hard to believe that was over 25 years ago.

Kim Il Sung likes to thump his chest about beating the Americans in the Korean war. However had it not been for the intervention of Chinese troops there would likely be one country called Korea with Seoul as the Capital. Kim Jong Un would likely be just another kid trying to get a job after college.

A very good book from the Chinese perspective is 'Enter the Dragon' by Russel Spurr.

https://www.amazon.com/Enter-D...0-1951/dp/1557049149

In my day (Viet-Nam) in the Marine Corps we had regimental, battalion and company grade officers that were veterans of the end of WW2-Okinawa & China occupation and Korean War. The company grade offices were usually Mustangs(enlisted NCO,s that were promoted to officers during the Korean War) The Korean experience was more prevalent as opposed to WW2. Also the Korean War experience was most likely why North Viet-Nam was not invaded, covert operations in Laos and limited ground invasion of Cambodia. Korea shaped a lot of what we did and why we did it.