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Aaron Dean shooting , 8 mil ? 12 million ? Login/Join 
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posted
Aaron Dean, who killed Atatiana Jefferson in Ft. Worth .

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/1...-charged-murder.html

whats that going to be worth to those left behind.





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 48640 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
still exist
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Sad story all around. Not even sure where to start.

I can't help but wonder if the lady's defensive pistol being in her hand ( as reported here) was a factor.


.
 
Posts: 8186 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If it turns out that she did have a gun and pointed it at the officer, as I've heard but not confirmed, then I think they reach a settlement before trial and it's over 1 mil but less than 10.

The big question I have is from a tactics and SOP position: were the officers following protocol in checking around the house without attempting to make contact with anyone inside and without announcing their presence as police? It seems like a bad idea to me to be essentially snooping around someone's house unannounced, especially in a free state like Texas where it's likely for people inside to have defensive firearms. We all know it's a bad idea for a homeowner to leave the house to investigate something outside, but if you can't even have a gun inside your own home without risking getting shot from outside then where does that leave us?



Mongo only pawn in game of life...
 
Posts: 316 | Location: DFW | Registered: August 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
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quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
Sad story all around. Not even sure where to start.

I can't help but wonder if the lady's defensive pistol being in her hand ( as reported here) was a factor.


??? How would it not be a factor? I certainly hope it was the only factor. What other reason could the officer have had for shooting the woman through a window from outside of her home?
 
Posts: 5167 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
Sad story all around. Not even sure where to start.

I can't help but wonder if the lady's defensive pistol being in her hand ( as reported here) was a factor.


??? How would it not be a factor? I certainly hope it was the only factor. What other reason could the officer have had for shooting the woman through a window from outside of her home?


The earlier stories I recall said the cops showed up, didn't announce they were law enforcement and the lady thought they were burglars or home invaders.
She had her gun out, inside the home to defend herself like most people would. Allowing yourself to be seen and with backlight wasn't a good tactic but she's an amatuer at this.

Some quotes for those that didn't read the article;

"The officer sees the woman through the window, shouts, "Put your hands up, show me your hands," and fires one shot. Kraus confirmed that Dean never identified himself as police."

"Dean's partner, identified in the warrant as L. Darch, told investigators she never saw Jefferson raise the gun before Dean opened fire.

"Officer Darch said that they went into the backyard and Officer Dean was standing between her and the house and she could only see Jefferson's face through the window when Officer Dean discharged his weapon one time," the arrest warrant affidavit reads."
 
Posts: 5399 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
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quote:
Some quotes for those that didn't read the article;


I'd like to read the article, but it's behind a pay wall, so thank you for posting some of it.
 
Posts: 5167 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Manslaughter, at a minimum.
 
Posts: 43551 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
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Yes, standard practice under the circumstances.

Justified shooting (the information I’ve seen says the resident pointed the gun at the officer through the window). The officers were dispatched to what was essentially assigned to them as a breaking and entering in progress, with information that no one was supposed to be there.

Unfortunate, certainly, but legally justified.

Thrown under the bus for politics.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10514 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of smlsig
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quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Yes, standard practice under the circumstances.

Justified shooting (the information I’ve seen says the resident pointed the gun at the officer through the window). The officers were dispatched to what was essentially assigned to them as a breaking and entering in progress, with information that no one was supposed to be there.

Unfortunate, certainly, but legally justified.

Thrown under the bus for politics.



I seriously doubt you’ll get 12 civilians, me included, to come to that conclusion


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Posts: 4126 | Location: SML & OBX | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What a shit situation. Nothing here says it's a justified shoot though. He didn't identify himself as police.

I'm sure lots of people here wouldn't think it's justified if it happened to them or someone they know.
 
Posts: 3066 | Registered: January 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scurvy:
What a shit situation. Nothing here says it's a justified shoot though. He didn't identify himself as police.

I'm sure lots of people here wouldn't think it's justified if it happened to them or someone they know.


When Person A points a gun at Person B, and Person B perceives a lethal threat (that a reasonable person would also believe given the same known facts) and shoots and kills Person A, the shooting is most likely justified.

Same would have almost certainly gone for the woman, if roles were reversed and she shot and killed the officer pointing a gun at her through the window, not knowing he was an officer.

And notifying someone that you are a cop when they are pointing a gun at you is not required before you shoot. Well-settled caselaw.


Like I said, shitty situation, but I stand by my assessment until I hear new information that clearly doesn't say she was pointing a gun at him.

This is a scenario that is in the back of our heads on every alarm call, and most officers run multiples every night. I'm certainly reviewing this mess with my officers. I believe the confrontation could have been avoided with a better approach to begin with.

Pretty shitty tactics on both sides. For the officers for having poor light discipline, creating the problem to begin with (the goal is to sneak up like a ninja and see if someone is burgling the house, IF so, then surround and announce like a MFer with blue lights before going in, if entry is needed, if not then knock on the front door), and poor tactics for a resident for confronting a possible burglar through a window vs taking cover at a safe/defensive position where you can be damn sure you need to point your gun/shoot.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10514 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raptorman
Picture of Mars_Attacks
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I seem to have watched a different video. She was never given a chance to respond.

She had every RIGHT to defend her home. She was an INNOCENT victim. Blame the victim.

No matter how much you try to justify this, she was killed with zero due process.

He had every chance to announce he was an officer, knock on the door, DUCK. He shot into a home with PLENTY of cover in which to retreat.


Manslaughter.

It's the minimum of what I would be charged with.


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Posts: 31394 | Location: North, GA | Registered: October 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire for effect
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She has the right to defend herself in her home.
Police officer is guilty of manslaughter.
Even if she pointed the gun at him, she was in fear of her life from an unknown. He had no legitimate reason to shoot her under the circumstances.
No doubt in my mind.
Protocol followed was wrong. Family has the right to sue for a large punitive amount.

Chongosuerto, I seriously disagree with the ethics in your statement.



"Ride to the sound of the big guns."
 
Posts: 7143 | Location: South Georgia | Registered: May 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
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Dirty Harry in Magnum Force said, "Nothing wrong with shooting, as long as the right people get shot." Well, guess what, the wrong person got shot. It is not a "good shoot" or a "justified shoot." I could muck out the Budweiser Clydesdales' stables and not see any more horse shit.
 
Posts: 22754 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unhyphenated American
Picture of Floyd D. Barber
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quote:
When Person A points a gun at Person B, and Person B perceives a lethal threat (that a reasonable person would also believe given the same known facts) and shoots and kills Person A, the shooting is most likely justified.



So if it were a prowler who shot her, he would be justified?


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Posts: 7353 | Location: Between the Moon and New York City. | Registered: November 27, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd D. Barber:
quote:
When Person A points a gun at Person B, and Person B perceives a lethal threat (that a reasonable person would also believe given the same known facts) and shoots and kills Person A, the shooting is most likely justified.



So if it were a prowler who shot her, he would be justified?


No, a prowler would not have had a legal purpose for being there, but would still be able to argue the defense that he was faced with a lethal threat and was defending himself.

However, would you argue that if she shot a prowler just for prowling, she would have been justified?

You can’t just shoot people for being in your yard. People get locked up for that every year. Big difference between that and shooting someone in the process of breaking into your home, or already inside.

I say, if the prowler was armed and the resident felt a deadly threat from them pointing a gun at her, her shooting them would have been justified.

Same thing for this officer. Had the woman shot him, seeing him armed and pointing a gun at her, and not knowing he’s a cop investigating a possible break in, she would have been justified.

Being justified doesn’t mean it’s nice, or good, or happy. Both were in a shitty situation.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10514 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raptorman
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This is indefensible.

Period


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Posts: 31394 | Location: North, GA | Registered: October 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
"No, a prowler would not have had a legal purpose for being there, but would still be able to argue the defense that he was faced with a lethal threat and was defending himself."

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. Innocence is one of the critical items needed to shoot someone legally in self defense.
A prowler illegally on the property isn't an innocent party.

As far as the victim is concerned, she was in her home, minding her own business. The cop didn't identify himself. Read the statements from the fellow officer and the supervisor. She ( the other officer) didn't even see a gun (even though the victim had every right to have one under the circumstances).

I think you're jumping to the wrong conclusion. This was a wellness check. Announce your intentions and identify yourself. What would you have done under those circumstances?
 
Posts: 5399 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This seems to set a precedent. Suppose someone don't like their neighbor. Call in an anonymous tip at midnight that it looks like someone is breaking into their home. They get up and go to the window to investigate, get shot by the police, problem solved. If that doesn't work the first try, keep trying.
 
Posts: 1746 | Registered: October 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of arabiancowboy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Yes, standard practice under the circumstances.

Justified shooting (the information I’ve seen says the resident pointed the gun at the officer through the window). The officers were dispatched to what was essentially assigned to them as a breaking and entering in progress, with information that no one was supposed to be there.

Unfortunate, certainly, but legally justified.

Thrown under the bus for politics.


Sorry man, you haven’t convinced me at all. Hope his lawyer has a better explanation. I know you guys have a tough job, but this outcome is 100% unsat.
 
Posts: 2064 | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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