I was in the Netherlands this week for business. I was supposed to be there all week but it didn't work out that way.

Arrived at 6am on Sunday morning and worked all day Sunday and started the day on Monday. Around noon on Monday the discomfort started and by 2pm my Dutch business partner was taking me to his doctor's office. By 3pm she had done all she could and gave me a note to go to hospital (needed there). They confirmed blood in the urine and admitted me. I spent Monday night and most of Tuesday there. Discharged Tuesday evening once the pain was under control and found a flight back to the US on Wed morning.

Sitting here waiting until 1pm to see my GP in some pain.

The Dutch were great! All very nice, most spoke great English, but all spoke some. My urologist asked if I saw much of Netherlands and I opened my arms and said this has pretty much been my view and she laughed and asked what I thought of Dutch healthcare. I told her that I saw a DR. without an appointment, went to the ER and waited 10 mins to get a room and was medicated within 10mins of that. That would have never happened in the US!

10/10 would recommend Dutch Healthcare! 0/10 would not recommend kidney stones!

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:

I told her that I saw a DR. without an appointment, went to the ER and waited 10 mins to get a room and was medicated within 10mins of that. That would have never happened in the US!

Really?

I had two stones in my past.

Fuck the Dr office, went right to ER. So that saved me bunches of "in pain" time.

Needed no "note" from Doctor to go to ER.

In and medicated within minutes based on my pain levels...both times.

Dunno what the fuck you are talking about...

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
10/10 would recommend Dutch Healthcare! 0/10 would not recommend kidney stones!

Agree about the kidney stones, but think you should come off the meds before assessing Dutch Healthcare in general (although I'm sure your particular experience was everything socialists dream single-payer to be).

Personally, I never want to live in a system where I'm paying taxes through the nose for the privilege of waiting 2-3 weeks for an MRI or CT. I also wouldn't need a referral to go to the ER for treatment, so maybe it's whatever version of Obamacare you have that sucks.

Welcome home!

-Rob

How does the payment work? Do you pay at service, do they bill you, does your insurance pay, was it free? Fill us in.

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:

I also wouldn't need a referral to go to the ER for treatment, so maybe it's whatever version of Obamacare you have that sucks.

I might be missing something, but I went back and read this thread carefully, I saw nothing written in any post about anybody needing a referral for the ER.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:

I also wouldn't need a referral to go to the ER for treatment, so maybe it's whatever version of Obamacare you have that sucks.

I might be missing something, but I went back and read this thread carefully, I saw nothing written in any post about anybody needing a referral for the ER.

It was in the Netherlands that he required one.

"she had done all she could and gave me a note to go to hospital (needed there)"

My response was somewhat confusing and conflates two points: a) Unlike the Dutch system, I don't need a referral to go to the ER, and b) contrasting OP's praise for the Dutch system w/ ours.

Sorry about that.

-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
How does the payment work? Do you pay at service, do they bill you, does your insurance pay, was it free? Fill us in.

I'm wondering about this as well.

Jim

I had kidney stones twice. The first time I went to the ER and was in and out in 45 minutes. The second time I went to the ER at a different hospital and it only took 30 minutes because the stone passed into my bladder while I was there. I had a high deductible plan and paid $1,500 the first time and I believe right around $1,000 the second time.

If you liked the Dutch system so much, I'd suggest staying there and becoming an active participant in paying for it.

Next time you get one, go get a 12 pack and chug them...it’ll flush the stone out and the alcohol is for your pain...and there’s no deductible.

^^^That's the actual off-the-record advise the doctor in the ER gave me when I had the first one. The second one was 9 years later, not as painful and the thought it was another kidney stone didn't cross my mind. I would have done that except the stone passed into my bladder while I was waiting for them to tell me what it was.

I had a kidney stone in 2009. Went straight to the ER. They had me in and on pain meds via IV in less than 15 minutes.

No need to go to a doc in the box or general practitioner and get permission like in the Netherlands.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
^^^That's the actual off-the-record advise the doctor in the ER gave me when I had the first one. The second one was 9 years later, not as painful and the thought it was another kidney stone didn't cross my mind. I would have done that except the stone passed into my bladder while I was waiting for them to tell me what it was.

mine was not off the record, my Uro told me straight up to drink 'good beer'

when I asked what was good, he asked what I drank ,

after about 15 different styles and brands he said I was good, drink up,


worst stone I had shook loose in May, and after pissing blood on and off I decided in Oct to drink as much of a mini keg as possible, (Bell's Two Hearted, mighty tasty) and passed it that night from the kidney (woke from a feeling like my kidney was on fire) then relief and right back to sleep,

pissed it out that morning, (slightly hung over)


after that one, the other 7 or 8 have been a breeze

Former Dutchman here. In The Netherlands your GP is your first point of contact for general non-urgent health issues. If needed, the GP will give you a referral for a specialist/ hospital as needed.

If urgent you can always go straight to the hospital or ER. They will not turn you away.

Income Taxes are indeed higher than here in the US, but healthcare premiums are around $180/month per individual. Very limited deductibles (when I left a couple of years ago around $300), no life time maximums and pre-existing conditions are covered.

Also: quality of care and wait times are similar to here in the US, you can always get a second opinion and there are no “death-panels”.

There are a lot of things screwed up in the Netherlands, but healthcare ain’t one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
How does the payment work? Do you pay at service, do they bill you, does your insurance pay, was it free? Fill us in.

I'm wondering about this as well.

Jim

The GP will normally ask you to pay at service, but I was in such pain they said they'd submit it for me and let me go. Quite nice of them really. I have a copy of the bill, it was 52 euros. The hospital did not make me pay anything at service nor did I have to sign anything as part of discharge. Nurse came in and said I was free to go. They said its submitted directly to insurance. I think I paid about 55 euros for meds.

So. To correct myself, I didnt need a note to go to the er, I needed a referral to see the urologist at the hospital but entered in through the ER. So I did say it wrong there.

My point was that it was great service with good people. If you have to be out of country and need urgent care, the Netherlands is a good place to be. I could have been in rural Spain if it happened 2 days later. No where did I say I prefer socialized medicine over our system. You guys are always so quick to jump to some freakin' political conclusion you sometimes forget that sometimes it's nothing more than what you read. Think about that.

And Trapper, go fuck yourself and stay out of my threads from now on.

Minor thread drift....

My first stone is taking it's sweet time getting out. I'm over a month now, and I THINK it's in the bladder. Is that normal??

I hate hangovers, so I've not tried the beer method. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
I told her that I saw a DR. without an appointment, went to the ER and waited 10 mins to get a room and was medicated within 10mins of that. That would have never happened in the US!

This happens in the US quite a bit in my experience. I get tired of people telling me how great things are in other countries compared to the USA which is where my comment is coming from.

I won't post in any of your threads in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:

I also wouldn't need a referral to go to the ER for treatment, so maybe it's whatever version of Obamacare you have that sucks.

I might be missing something, but I went back and read this thread carefully, I saw nothing written in any post about anybody needing a referral for the ER.

Here in the OP: Around noon on Monday the discomfort started and by 2pm my Dutch business partner was taking me to his doctor's office. By 3pm she had done all she could and gave me a note to go to hospital (needed there).

Happy you like the NL healthcare. I like the U.S. Have a great day.

I went to the local ER in 2012 when I had my Achilles tendon rupture. They took me right in and were great, as was my subsequent care (surgery to basically splice it back together and physical therapy). I'm sure it being a work injury, therefore covered by workman's comp, greased the wheels a great deal, but still.

I think where this went wrong is that you seemed, by words and tone, to be praising the "socialized" aspect of Dutch health care rather than their efficiency, competence and professional expertise. But to support it, they pay a level of taxation that we Americans wouldn't tolerate. At least they get something out of it.