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Blinded by
the Sun
Picture of GA Gator
posted
This is pretty ballsy if the Saudi gov killed this guy in their consulate in a foreign city.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-45744764

https://www.independent.co.uk/...ul-a8572326.html?amp


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Posts: 4786 | Location: Home | Registered: April 27, 2009Report This Post
goodheart
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Interesting update with a lot more information regarding Khashoggi, who seems to be a Saudi spook and Muslim Brotherhood advocate:

quote:
German Press Reveals Saudi Spook Saga Behind Khashoggi Disappearance
People hold signs during a protest at the Embassy of Saudi Arabia about the disappearance of Saudi Jamal Khashoggi in Washington. (AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin, File )
Germany's leading right-of-center daily Die Welt this morning reveals that Jamal Khashoggi was not a journalist, but a high-level operative for the Saudi intelligence service, an intimate of Osama bin Laden, and the nephew of the shadiest of all Arab arms dealers, the infamous Adnan Khashoggi. John Bradley reported last week in the Spectator that Khashoggi, who allegedly met a grisly end in a Saudi consulate in Istanbul, was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist organization that among other things wants to replace the Saudi monarchy with a modern Islamist totalitarian state.

So much for the whining in the Establishment media about freedom of the press and protection of the rights of journalists. The presumed-dead Khashoggi was a top-level spook who swore fealty to some of the Arab world's nastiest elements, and who played a high-stakes game in Saudi spookdom. We don't know why he disappeared, but we know what we don't know.

Among other things, we know that Khashoggi was bitterly opposed to the new Saudi government's rapprochement with the state of Israel. As a Muslim Brotherhood member, he backed Palestinian intransigence.

Die Welt interviewed the German-Egyptian political scientist Asiem El Difraoui, co-founder of the Berlin think tank Candid Foundation, who met Khashoggi for the first time during the American occupation of Iraq. Here is a translation of the nub of the interview

Die Welt: Mr El Difraoui, you have met Jamal Khashoggi several times. What kind of person was he?
Asiem El Difraoui: I met him in about 2003 or 2004, in the circle of former Saudi Arabia intelligence chief Turki Bin Faisal Al Saud. He and Prince Turki were already considering how the kingdom could be modernized. And Jamal had met Osama bin Laden several times. He had tried during the 1990s to move him away from militancy. That was obviously important why he visited bin Laden in Sudan and Afghanistan. He told bin Laden that he should mitigate his criticism of the royal family and return home. Of course, within the elite everyone knows each other. Both came from the same generation and from two of the richest families in the kingdom - bin Laden's father was the country's largest contractor, Khashoggi's uncle Adnan was an influential arms dealer. In addition, Khashoggi's grandfather was personal physician to the Saudi King Abd al-Aziz. But Khashoggi himself also had sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood, in which he saw a more modern, more democratic form of Islamism. For today's Saudi leadership, however, the Muslim Brothers are their principal enemy in the world.

Die Welt: What do you suspect, what could have happened to Khashoggi?

Difraoui: If he was murdered, then I would be surprised if his journalistic activities were the only reason. The Saudis own half of the international Arab media. They have generally built up a very effective media shield. As a journalist and activist, Khashoggi may have been extremely annoying, but no real threat. But Khashoggi knew a lot. He was not just the media officer of intelligence chief Prince Turki. He was one of his main advisers and was said to have worked for the secret service for a while. Khashoggi was extremely familiar with sensitive issues of the kingdom. And he was a member of the super-elite. He might have known too much.

Die Welt: What sort of knowledge could have become dangerous for him?

Difraoui: Corruption or past knowledge about links to extremism. Above all, however, the internal conflicts or misconduct of the royal family. If the secret service protects the security of the country, it must also know what is happening in the ruling family. The current, often unpredictable crown prince Mohammed bin Salman is currently the really strong man in the country. But he has also made enemies in the family. What if his father Salman dies? Then Mohammed will probably have to fight for his position once again. Perhaps Khashoggi's knowledge was dangerous in this regard. His old patron, Prince Turki, wanted to position himself as Crown Prince. He has surprisingly not commented on the case so far. Turki knows almost all internals of the family.

The American Establishment media either ignores or distorts the relevant facts. The Muslim Brotherhood is a "democratic movement," according to the Wall Street Journal's write-up on Jamal Khashoggi: "One of the country’s best-known journalists, he clashed with the clerical establishment for his socially liberal views. His sympathy for democratic movements drew the ire of the Saudi government, particularly for the Muslim Brotherhood, which the royal family views as a threat to its absolute monarchy."

On the contrary: as my friend Frank Gaffney has shown at the Center for Security Policy, the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization and has been since its founding. It is also a threat to American security. Of course, Khashoggi was beloved of Establishment types who believe in the Islamist route to democracy, e.g., David Ignatius of the Washington Post. Ignatius covers the intelligence community, and a big section of the intelligence Establishment remains enamored of the notion of Islamist democracy, for example, George W. Bush's former CIA chief Michael Hayden.

There are no good guys in Saudi Arabia, just bad guys and worse guys. This, after all, is a country ruled by a family, and its family politics often recall Game of Thrones. I condone nothing and endorse no-one, but I don't believe it's America's job to fix the problems of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I'm not interested in bad guys or good guys, just in our guys vs. their guys. So a bit of caution is warranted in drawing conclusions from the Khashoggi affair. We don't know what happened and I don't trust the intelligence Establishment to tell us.


Link


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Posts: 18066 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Report This Post
I believe in the
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Sundance at The Conservative Treehouse has an elaborate theory of connections, coincidences, alignments, etc. Who knows if any of this makes any sense.

Flag #1 – Jamal Khashoggi in self-exile, worked for The Washington Post, and was hiding behind ‘residency’ in the U.S. WaPo is a notorious left-wing intelligence propaganda outlet for the most politicized elements within the U.S. intelligence apparatus.

♦Flag #2 – Turkey (Recep Erdogan) pushing the narrative. Erdogan is a notorious liar when it comes to his interests, and a master manipulator. Turkey/Erdogan is the most openly staunch supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood and has a self-interest in distracting/deflecting U.S. economic pressure from their ongoing relationship with Iran.

♦Flag #3 – Saudi Arabia [Mohamed Bin Salman (MbS)] has been instituting political and cultural reforms that are antithetical to the advanced objectives of the Muslim Brotherhood, Recep Erdogan (wants new Ottoman Empire), and extreme Islam.

♦Flag #4 – The voices behind the U.S. push to promote the Jamal Khashoggi story are all aligned in one purposeful and ideological direction. Former Obama officials including: John Brennan, Samantha Power, Valerie Jarrett et al, are all pushing the story in a transparent effort to create division between the U.S. and KSA and by extension benefit their Muslim Brotherhood and Iranian allies.

♦Flag #5 – The left-wing, highly political, intelligence apparatus – and all DC interests are joined by the notorious right-wing members of the UniParty war machine. [Rubio, Sasse, Flake, Schumer, Menendez, et al] Together with the exact same left-wing media voices (right and left), and all the political ‘think-tanks’, who advance the DC drumbeat. Yes, the gang is all back together again in their high-brow pontification of ‘muh values‘.

♦Flag #6 – The story is being pushed into U.S. media outlets by a notorious Muslim Brotherhood mouthpiece, Khaled Saffuri:

[I]n the past 24 hours we now have a glimpse of exactly who is feeding the establishment media reporting on the Khashoggi matter — including at least one source who was tied to a joint Libyan intelligence and al-Qaeda plot to assassinate the Saudi crown prince.

Khaled Saffuri is the protege of al-Qaeda fundraiser Abdurahman Alamoudi, who is currently serving a 17-year sentence in federal prison for his role as bagman for the Libyan/Al-Qaeda assassination plot. (read more)

Link




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Report This Post
Irksome Whirling Dervish
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Meh.

The US provided arms to Stalin who killed millions of his own people. We looked the other way, said some things expressing concern but we gave him arms because was fighting Germany.

Saudi Arabia is a stable country for us in the M.E. and in turn, they exert or allow us to do so against our foes.

We'll say some bad words, do some things but business will go on as usual. SA is not the US and they don't share our values. We mostly get along with them and that's good enough.
 
Posts: 4076 | Location: "You can't just go to Walmart with a gift card and get a new brother." Janice Serrano | Registered: May 03, 2005Report This Post
Told cops where to go for over 29 years…
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All the cloak and dagger stuff aside, if you have to flee your country because you pissed off the defacto dictator, probably not a good idea to go to their embassy or consulate to get paperwork.






What part of "...Shall not be infringed" don't you understand???


 
Posts: 10938 | Location: Western WA state for just a few more years... | Registered: February 17, 2006Report This Post
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U.S. needs to proceed cautiously and be sensitive to the relationship with the Saudi’s..


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Posts: 13812 | Location: VIrtual | Registered: November 13, 2009Report This Post
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If he were not a "journalist" the fact that some Saudis killed and dismembered another Saudi wouldn't merit a line in US media. They have been cutting one another's throats for thousands of years, why would we expect them to change now?


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Posts: 4358 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Report This Post
Peace through
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quote:
Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Meh.

The US provided arms to Stalin who killed millions of his own people. We looked the other way, said some things expressing concern but we gave him arms because was fighting Germany.

Saudi Arabia is a stable country for us in the M.E. and in turn, they exert or allow us to do so against our foes.

We'll say some bad words, do some things but business will go on as usual. SA is not the US and they don't share our values. We mostly get along with them and that's good enough.
Congratulations on missing the significance of this astonishing story. A citizen of a country was tortured, murdered and dismemebered when he went into a consulate of his country. He was turtured, murdered and dismembered at the behest of the Saudi Government.

That's bold beyond belief and Saudi Arabia needs to suffer the consequences for their barbarism. Absolutely incredible that they would do this and your indifference to it is your problem, not ours.


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Posts: 107576 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
Move Up or
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I'm still trying to figure out why I'm supposed to care...

Sounds like a Saudi internal matter to me...
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: middle Tennessee | Registered: October 28, 2008Report This Post
Peace through
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quote:
Originally posted by mark_a:
I'm still trying to figure out why I'm supposed to care...

Sounds like a Saudi internal matter to me...
If you- or anyone else here- needs this explained to you, then no amount of explaining the absolute barbarism of this act will matter.

Good God
 
Posts: 107576 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
Peace through
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quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
Who knows if any of this makes any sense.
The Saudis claim that the man left their consulate by "the back door". with his fiance waiting in a car out front.

You can flag this and flag that. Doesn't matter. The man went into the consulate and never came out and the Saudis say he left the building by going out the back door. What else do you need to know?

He applied for a marriage license. They knew he was coming. He left Audi Arabia in September of last year because the Saudis blocked him on Twitter. After he left SA, he continued to speak out against Islam and against the Saudi Royal family.

Now, how hard is this to figure out?

The first chance they had to get their hands on him, they murdered him.


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"I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023
 
Posts: 107576 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
Who knows if any of this makes any sense.
The Saudis claim that the man left their consulate by "the back door". with his fiance waiting in a car out front.

You can flag this and flag that. Doesn't matter. The man went into the consulate and never came out and the Saudis say he left the building by going out the back door. What else do you need to know?

He applied for a marriage icense. They knew he was coming. He left Audi Arabia in September of last year because the Saudis blocked him on Twitter. After he left SA, he connued to speak out against Islam and against the Saudi Royal family.

Now, how hard is this to figure out?

The first chance they had to get their hands on him, they murdered him.


Sorry. I’m referring to the alignment of factions spelled out in Flags 1-6.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Report This Post
Just for the
hell of it
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Saudi has been a crap hole in human rights and even more women rights forever. We have looked the other way for the most part forever. Those in government have chosen the benefits to outweigh the cost of interference.

This episode is a new step ad they did it in front of the world. Maybe they thought it would go unnoticed or no one would care.


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Posts: 16397 | Registered: March 27, 2004Report This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
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The Saudis are saying that the Turkish government can now search the embassy themselves.
The Turks don't want to show their hand as far as surveillance they may have in place.
This will be an interesting story as it moves forward.
Not a lot of good folks on either side of this one. Both are brutal thugs.


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Posts: 9507 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Report This Post
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Most probably, he did leave by "the back door," however it was in pieces...

This is very disturbing Frown

This could happen to others, going into other embassies.




 
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Coin Sniper
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This is simple. The guy went into the Saudi Embassy and never came out. If they want to prove that they didn't murder him, all they have to do is produce the man. Show him standing/sitting, talking etc. Otherwise everyone knows he got Hoffa'ed




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Posts: 37957 | Location: Above the snow line in Michigan | Registered: May 21, 2004Report This Post
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If it can be proved that the Saudis murdered this guy, it will diminish the Saudi government's influence in the region and strengthen Iran.
That's international politics for you.

Great, we can trade one group of bad actors for another group of bad actors.

There is no win for anyone here but Iran.

If indeed the Saudis did this, did they not think this through?

It's a bad situation all around.


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So there is iron in my words of life.

 
Posts: 31425 | Registered: February 20, 2000Report This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by lbj:
If it can be proved that the Saudis murdered this guy, it will diminish the Saudi government's influence in the region and strengthen Iran.
That's international politics for you.

Great, we can trade one group of bad actors for another group of bad actors.

There is no win for anyone here but Iran.

If indeed the Saudis did this, did they not think this through?

It's a bad situation all around.


Only from the viewpoint of Western Christian democratic cultures. For most of the rest of the world, and for thousands of years of history, it is business as usual, except for “these PITA westerners we have to do business with.”




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Report This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by lbj:
If it can be proved that the Saudis murdered this guy, it will diminish the Saudi government's influence in the region and strengthen Iran.
That's international politics for you.

That's the crux of this, who does the influencing. Saudi's MBS is getting pretty thuggish with his policies, when he first came to power and did some house-cleaning along with new women's rights laws, it was hoped this was a new age of modernity for that place. Now, we know it's business as usual, from bungling the operation in Yemen to this jackassery, he's flexing in all the wrong places. We may never know what happened as the players in that region are experts at obfuscation. Meanwhile, Iran sit quietly, waiting as their Arab neighbors squabble and posture...
 
Posts: 14653 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Report This Post
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Picture of HayesGreener
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by lbj:
If it can be proved that the Saudis murdered this guy, it will diminish the Saudi government's influence in the region and strengthen Iran.
That's international politics for you.

Great, we can trade one group of bad actors for another group of bad actors.

There is no win for anyone here but Iran.

If indeed the Saudis did this, did they not think this through?

It's a bad situation all around.


Only from the viewpoint of Western Christian democratic cultures. For most of the rest of the world, and for thousands of years of history, it is business as usual, except for “these PITA westerners we have to do business with.”

Precisely.

It is not hard for me to imagine that some "rogue actors" will be identified as having committed the crime, and will be shot by Saudi law enforcement while attempting to escape


CMSGT USAF (Retired)
Chief of Police (Retired)
 
Posts: 4358 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Report This Post
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