Hybrids, too. These are and shall continue to be nothing more than a fringe of the automobile market.

quote:

Originally posted by jimb888:

quote:

We don't buy green cars for the environment, we do it to save cash.

^^^^This^^^

Electrics have a lot less things to break as well. Battery packs are the wildcard, as they get better (and they will) electrics will be the clear winner here. I don't own one yet, and just bought a 2016 F-150, so I'm not invested, just shooting my mouth off right now:-)

We'll see how Volvo does to make this transition so soon. I'm skeptical.

Was talking with a service tech the other day and as a benchmark, the parts cost of a depleted battery pack on a Ford Escape Hybrid is around $7k. The car he was working on had less that 100k miles on it and was just out of the warranty period, so the owners were on the hook for all of it which negated any fuel cost savings they may have had. On the other hand, there are New York City taxis that have put 300k miles on their FEHs and when torn down for inspection it was found that the packs still retained 80% of their charge capacity.

I would like an all-electric for a short commuter or a hybrid for general purpose, but I'm not giving up my all gas/diesel vehicle.

I read it this way

quote:

Volvo Cars became the first mainstream automaker to sound the death knell of themselves over the internal combustion engine.

And with that Volvo reduces their lineup to second car status. EVs are not ready for prime time now and they won't be anytime soon. But I'd never buy some china junk car anyhow. It's bad enough electronics and cheap shit come from there but I'll never, ever buy a china junk car.

quote:

Volvo Cars became the first mainstream automaker to sound the death knell of the internal combustion engine, saying on Wednesday that all the models it introduces from 2019 will be either hybrids or powered solely by batteries ...

Doesn't sound like a "death knell" to me.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Wake up. The internal combustion engine is not going away- not within the lifetime of any person alive on this planet today. You heard me. Read it again. I mean it.

Absolutely. The internal combustion engine is still the most profitable auto in production; no pure electric car is making a profit. The internal combustion engine keeps getting better, more efficent, at a faster rate than EV. Hell, Toyota, the company that basically created the EV market (and a company that has a better track record than Volvo) is pulling away from battery-operated cars and investing its future in hydrogen fuel cell technology. Toyota's vice chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada has this to say about EVs and gas cars- “because of its shortcomings — driving range, cost and recharging time — the electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars.”

Gas engine cars are here to stay for a long time.

The future for the internal combustion engine. https://youtu.be/OZWeNPi2XkE

Nearly all of the taxis around here are Priuses now, where a couple years ago ago they were mostly Crown Vics and the like. I'm seeing charging stations popping up more and more. One of my neighbors drives an EV. Yeah, the EVs and hybrids are becoming more popular, but I also don't see them pushing out the pure gas/diesel vehicles anytime soon. The new administration is being considerably friendlier to domestic oil production than The Obomination was, so the price of gas will likely continue to drop. I wouldn't be surprised to see the gov't subsidies for EVs start to dry up too. Now if the Libs regain control in 2020 or 2024, I can see that pendulum swinging back the other way, and THEN the EV/hybrid cars MIGHT start to make a much bigger push into the market.

If it was more commonly understood just how polluting electric vehicles were to manufacture, there'd be little to no call for them.

Short range, long charge times, battery replacement and disposal, all contribute to their unsuitability.

As long as an internal combustion engine has fuel, it has full power. Electric does not - low charge state, lower power.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
It has it's place... and getting off oil would be great, more oil for other products, lower value for oil less cost for consumers...

I'm all for electric vehicles. As soon as they make a 4 door sedan with at least a 300 mile range that can be recharged on a regular 110 volt outlet in 10-15 minutes max I will be seriously interested.

That will never happen.

120 V, 15 amps, 15 minutes is 1.6 million Joules of energy.

One gallon of gasoline has an energy content of about 120 million Joules of energy.

You're asking for a car that can go 300 miles on about a shot glass worth of gasoline.

The technology to build a car that can charge a 300 mile plus range in 15 minutes exists but it requires a much, much larger electrical supply than a residential 120V, 15A circuit.

Just what I need, one more damned thing in my life that requires recharging !

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:
Gas would have to drop to 1990s prices for it to be cheaper than charging my volt.

It costs us about $20 a month extra in electric and Christy averages about 850 electric miles a month.

A car getting 50mpg would cost $34 at today prices and would need to be 1.25 to equal the same.

We don't buy green cars for the environment, we do it to save cash.

How many mpg does your Volt get once the batteries are discbarged? How much better would it get if it weren't lugging those batteries around? How much less would the initial purchase price have been without those batteries?

Statement today by internal combustion engine: "Reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated"

Volvo could do nothing or very little regarding altering the companies move away from IC engines and still reap rewards from this statement. They've just created a green illusion.

Kind of like the statement I could make in my community by applying and getting rejected for building a heliport, which some well to do person had their request rejected. It implies I either have or can afford a helicopter.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
It has it's place... and getting off oil would be great, more oil for other products, lower value for oil less cost for consumers...

I'm all for electric vehicles. As soon as they make a 4 door sedan with at least a 300 mile range that can be recharged on a regular 110 volt outlet in 10-15 minutes max I will be seriously interested.

That will never happen.

120 V, 15 amps, 15 minutes is 1.6 million Joules of energy.

One gallon of gasoline has an energy content of about 120 million Joules of energy.

You're asking for a car that can go 300 miles on about a shot glass worth of gasoline.

The technology to build a car that can charge a 300 mile plus range in 15 minutes exists but it requires a much, much larger electrical supply than a residential 120V, 15A circuit.

No No No!! Not the family Joules!

quote:

I'm thinking that a large, worldwide car and truck maker knows its market pretty well. Maybe even better than a bunch of posters on a gun board.

While this is true and we aren't in Sweden, this august group represents a large pool of sane people with a wide base of experience in the real world including some "C"-suites and board rooms.

We vote Volvo is wrong.

Time will answer the question as to whether they disappear like Saab.

RMD

Fully electric cars are, at this point in time, novelties and pipe dreams. Until a way to make cars run safely on water (not station provided, chemically enhanced, special "pay at the pump" water) I'll be sticking with good old gasoline powered options.

I looked at hybrids not long ago as well, and was not impressed with longevity. The thought of dumping a car after a handful of years because replacing the battery pack is ridiculously expensive did not inspire confidence. 10 years is the least amount of time I'd want to keep a car (my Tacoma turns 20 this year, Grand Cherokee 15) and our newest, a 2013 Outback is only in the driveway because our 04 Forester was totaled by a young lady that liked running stop signs.

I recently spent 10 days visiting relatives in California. While there they let me drive their 2016 Chevrolet Volt. I did not take any long trips so the driving was all electric. Now I consider myself a car guy, my current car is a Mustang GT. I found the volt to be a competent vehicle for urban trips. Would I buy a volt as my only car, no but as a second car in urban environment. Yes.

In my opinion wide spread use of full electric cars will be limited by current battery technology.

BTW. Tesla stock was down 7% yesterday.

Marketing gimmick pure and simple. Notice it's Volvo cars and not their heavy equipment line? Why? Because they are just trying to get noticed by the urban yuppies. Electric will never be a viable option for any type of transportation outside of very small specific niche uses. Not in my lifetime anyway. If Volvo really believed the IC engine was dead why aren't they building all electric 35 ton dump trucks? All electric front end loaders? Because they are just playing to an ignorant market trying to gain more share thats why.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Marketing gimmick pure and simple. Notice it's Volvo cars and not their heavy equipment line? Why? Because they are just trying to get noticed by the urban yuppies. Electric will never be a viable option for any type of transportation outside of very small specific niche uses. Not in my lifetime anyway. If Volvo really believed the IC engine was dead why aren't they building all electric 35 ton dump trucks? All electric front end loaders? Because they are just playing to an ignorant market trying to gain more share thats why.

From google search

The "VOLVO Group" is an umbrella organisation which has several brands under it. It is mainly comprised of

a. Trucks - VOLVO, UD, Eicher, Renault, Mack, Donfeng,

b. Buses - VOLVO, Novabus,

c. Construction Equipment - VOLVO, SDLG

d. Marine applications - Penta

The VOLVO car brand is currently in the hands of a Chineese brand called "Geely" . VOLVO cars was initially sold to Ford who later on then sold it to Geely.

Geely continues to sell the cars under the same VOLVO branding since the brand is synonomous with safety and quality (The VOLVO group is ok with Geely using the same branding for selling the cars)

Apart from the car business which is now in the hands of Geely, all other Business areas(mentioned above) come under one common umbrella called the "VOLVO Group"