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Kate Steinle Murderer...Not Guilty Login/Join 
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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quote:
It’s too bad this wasn’t televised, like the OJ murder trial, so people could see the evidence, hear the testimony, the arguments of counsel, evaluate the hits and misses for themselves.

Yes... that would have been great.

But sometimes a case takes on a wider significance beyond the facts of the case, as proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The Dred Scott case comes to mind.

The picture posted above, with the caption "A beautiful Fuck YOU to Trump" seems to show that this is more significant than your average "not guilty".


"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 13068 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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Anyone who refuses to see this as a miscarriage of justice is part of the problem. None of us really cares about the details of who dropped the ball or why.


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30747 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Anyone who refuses to see this as a miscarriage of justice is part of the problem. None of us really cares about the details of who dropped the ball or why.


EXACTLY!


Remember, this is all supposed to be for fun...................
 
Posts: 3378 | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RichardC
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Will we be able to read transcripts from the trial?

Would it include jury deliberations, perhaps with the names masked?


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Posts: 8850 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
Will we be able to read transcripts from the trial?

Would it include jury deliberations, perhaps with the names masked?


Transcripts would never include jury deliberations. They are not recorded.
 
Posts: 766 | Registered: July 06, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
Picture of mbinky
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There is right, and there is wrong. And sometimes those two things can't be found written down in a book. This result was wrong, but it is done.

Our system is not perfect, and personally I feel the prosecution overreached. I don't see how they could have proved what they charged "beyond a reasonalble doubt". Was that by design? Who knows.

As another poster noted the one possible positive out of this is that normal people, not the far left, not the far right, will look at this and say that it was wrong. And what could have prevented it? If he was never here in the first place. That would have prevented it.
 
Posts: 7163 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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quote:
Originally posted by mbinky:


Our system is not perfect, and personally I feel the prosecution overreached. I don't see how they could have proved what they charged "beyond a reasonalble doubt". Was that by design? Who knows.


Overcharged how? I asked this on the second page of this thread. If not involuntary manslaughter, what else could he have been charged with that would've brought justice?


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 18361 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
Picture of mbinky
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He was formally charged with first degree murder and then changed to second degree murder correct? That's not involuntary manslaughter which I believe could have been proved. I don't know California laws but manslaughter and murder are usually defined as two different things. Intent being a key ingredient.
 
Posts: 7163 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mbinky:
He was formally charged with first degree murder and then changed to second degree murder correct? That's not involuntary manslaughter which I believe could have been proved. I don't know California laws but manslaughter and murder are usually defined as two different things. Intent being a key ingredient.


He was found not guilty of first degree murder, second degree murder, and involuntary manslaughter.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 18361 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of TMats
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by mbinky:
He was formally charged with first degree murder and then changed to second degree murder correct? That's not involuntary manslaughter which I believe could have been proved. I don't know California laws but manslaughter and murder are usually defined as two different things. Intent being a key ingredient.


He was found not guilty of first degree murder, second degree murder, and involuntary manslaughter.

Exactly, the jury could have returned a guilty charge on any of three homicide charges.
quote:
Garcia Zarate faced a charge of second-degree murder, but jurors also were allowed to consider first-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter convictions. Link


_______________________________
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self.
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Posts: 6475 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
Picture of mbinky
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Ahh. Don't see how the last one passed. I was listening to Fox this AM before work and they only mentioned the murder charges. Figures. Accident or not, I don't see how he is not guilty of involuntary manslaughter. If my Sig "went off" in a Seven Eleven parking lot, the round then skipped off the concrete and went into a pile of Mexicans looking for work you could be dam sure I'd be guilty if one died.

There was just a headline on the Fox app about the DOJ charging him. Got to read it.
 
Posts: 7163 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of HayesGreener
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Will straight conservative white people be rioting in San Francisco tonight?


CMSGT USAF (Retired)
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Posts: 1918 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
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quote:
Originally posted by mbinky:
Ahh. Don't see how the last one passed. I was listening to Fox this AM before work and they only mentioned the murder charges. Figures. Accident or not, I don't see how he is not guilty of involuntary manslaughter. If my Sig "went off" in a Seven Eleven parking lot, the round then skipped off the concrete and went into a pile of Mexicans looking for work you could be dam sure I'd be guilty if one died.

There was just a headline on the Fox app about the DOJ charging him. Got to read it.


Here are some more details on the charges, it got bumped from the bottom of the last page:

quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by PR64:
I heard yesterday that 4 of the jury are immigrants.


Three of the jurors were immigrants:
http://www.mercurynews.com/201...-jose-garcia-zarate/

Jurors were instructed to consider 2nd degree murder, but were allowed to go with 1st degree murder OR involuntary manslaughter. Those were the only allowable verdicts.
http://abc7news.com/jury-in-ka...s-for-judge/2701947/

It would appear to easily meet the requirements for involuntary manslaughter. In fact, I don't see how it couldn't meet these requirements:
California's Involuntary Manslaughter Law Penal Code 192 (b) PC

Involuntary manslaughter in California occurs when one person kills another unintentionally, either

while committing a crime that is not an inherently dangerous California felony, OR
while committing a lawful act which might produce death, without due caution.1
Under California Penal Code 192(b), the key feature of California involuntary manslaughter is that it does not require intent to kill another person—unlike Penal Code 187 murder, which requires “malice aforethought.”2

And California's involuntary manslaughter law does not include actions that fit the definition above but involve a car. Those will be charged under California's vehicular manslaughter laws.3

Dr. Conrad Murray , the pop star Michael Jackson's personal physician, is probably California's most famous involuntary manslaughter defendant in recent years.

Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for prescribing Jackson a surgical anesthetic that eventually killed him. He received a jail sentence of four (4) years—the maximum penalty for involuntary manslaughter.4

Examples

Here are some additional examples of behavior that could lead to involuntary manslaughter charges in California:

A man steals a bicycle that has been left outside of a store (thus committing the California misdemeanor crime of petty theft). As he is riding away on the bicycle, he strikes a pedestrian who eventually dies of her injuries.
During a fight with her husband, a woman retrieves her gun and waves it at him to threaten him (thus violating Penal Code 417 PC, California's brandishing a weapon law). The gun accidentally fires, killing the husband.
A farm owner forces his workers to pick vegetables in record-breaking heat. One of them, a pregnant woman, collapses and dies of heatstroke.
A woman has a dog that has attacked people on several occasions. She lets the dog run off-leash at a dog park, and the dog mauls another dog owner who is at the park--leading to charges of both involuntary manslaughter and Penal Code 399 PC failing to control a dangerous animal.
Penalties

Involuntary manslaughter is a felony in California law. Potential penalties include

Two (2), three (3) or four (4) years in jail, and
A fine of up to ten thousand dollars ($10,000).5
Legal defenses

As a California homicide crime, involuntary manslaughter is punished harshly—and is a serious strike on someone's criminal record. It is worth fighting these charges with all you've got.

A California criminal defense lawyer could help you bring some of the following legal defenses against Penal Code 192(b) charges:

You acted in self-defense / defense of others;
The killing was an accident (and not a result of your criminal activity or negligence);
There is insufficient evidence to support your conviction; and
You were falsely accused.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 26328 | Location: TN/KY | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of olfuzzy
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DOJ files arrest warrant for illegal immigrant acquitted in Kate Steinle case:

The Department of Justice unsealed an arrest warrant Friday for Jose Inez Garcia Zarate, the illegal immigrant acquitted Thursday in Kate Steinle’s murder trial.

Zarate was found not guilty of murdering Steinle on a pier in San Francisco in July 2015. Steinle was walking with her father and a family friend when she was shot, collapsing into her father's arms.

Zarate had been released from a San Francisco jail about three months before the shooting, despite a request by federal immigration authorities to detain him for deportation. The case sparked a widespread national debate over illegal immigration and sanctuary cities.

He was acquitted of first- and second-degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and found not guilty of assault with a semi-automatic weapon. He was found guilty of posessing a firearm by a felon.

The arrest warrant was originally drafted in 2015 and amended this week to include violations related to the charges of a felon in possession of a firearm, involuntary manslaughter and assault with a deadly weapon, all of which were filed after the defendant's initial arrest, according to Friday's warrant.

Officials at the Department of Justice told Fox News that there is an existing federal detainer that requires Zarate to be remanded into the custody of the U.S. Marshals to be transported to the Western District of Texas pursuant to the arrest warrant.

After the verdict, U.S. immigration officials announced late Thursday that Zarate would be deported.

"Following the conclusion of this case, ICE will work to take custody of Mr. Garcia Zarate and ultimately remove him from the country," U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017...te-steinle-case.html
 
Posts: 4083 | Location: 20 miles north of hell | Registered: November 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Will straight conservative white people be rioting in San Francisco tonight?
That's a trick question.
 
Posts: 80254 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Will straight conservative white people be rioting in San Francisco tonight?


Both of Them? ;-D


Remember, this is all supposed to be for fun...................
 
Posts: 3378 | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
This Space for Rent
Picture of ugeesta
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quote:
Originally posted by djpaintles:
quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Will straight conservative white people be rioting in San Francisco tonight?


Both of Them? ;-D


Hey now. In our San Francisco office we have 7 men and I know at least 6 of them are straight.




We will never know world peace, until three people can simultaneously look each other straight in the eye
 
Posts: 4563 | Location: N-E Ohio | Registered: April 20, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
Will we be able to read transcripts from the trial?

Would it include jury deliberations, perhaps with the names masked?


Nope. Jury deliberations are secret, not reported.

Trial transcripts are kept by the court reporter who collects a fee for transcribing and producing copies.

I can’t say they are never available, because I found online the trial transcript of those two Border Patrolmen who shot the Mexican kid in the butt years ago, on the website of the US Attorney, but it is rare indeed.

It’s too bad. Our only information about these trials come from media reports. Think about one or two areas in which you are expert or near expert. Think about the news stories you read, or media accounts, dealing with these subjects and reflect how often those are accurate, realistic, intelligible. Me, too.

It seems to me that the jury did not accept the evidence as adequate to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the homicide charge, and concluded that it was entirely accidental, for which there was no criminal blame. We can’t really be certain, since we don't have the benefit of reviewing the evidence.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 43261 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If we are lucky, this travesty of justice will propel the country to erect the border wall and expel a couple of million illegals.


-c1steve
 
Posts: 1898 | Location: West coast | Registered: March 31, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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DOJ just put out an arrest warrant on this scumbag for federal charges - from Fox News.
 
Posts: 36386 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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