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Age Quod Agis |
I am becoming convinced that it will take a certain level of vigilantism to reset the relationship between criminals and the justice system in this country. I have completely lost faith in out justice system, and I am a member of it.
It would be enormously satisfying to see the perp and his smug activist lawyer hacked to pieces in the street. Wrong, but satisfying. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
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delicately calloused |
Yeah sure. I don't believe anything the IA says. I would only believe hard evidence. 'I found it in the street' is what a 7 yr old would say. I think what gets the ball rolling on vigilantism is the perception that the justice system has been compromised. For me that notion began with the OJ Simpson verdict. My perception of justice has been raw and festering ever since. I think I am not alone. In fact, right or wrong the whole nation seems to believe it is corrupt. Once the sense of corruption becomes overwhelming we will see vigilantism more and ore frequently. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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Member |
The prosecution dropped the ball or a judge would not allow key evidence in. I also heard this morning that the jury wanted to try the trigger pull on the pistol before deciding. Would like to know more about that. i would have been satisfied with involuntary manslaughter. I wonder if federal charges will be forthcoming? CMSGT USAF (Retired) Chief of Police (Retired) | |||
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Needs a bigger boat |
What about the whole death during the commission of a felony thing. Wasn't he committing a felony by being in possession of a handgun? (as a 5 time felon) a death then occurred during the commission of a felony, murder in my opinion. But I'm a middle age, middle class, white male so my opinion is worth less than nothing in the CA judicial system. MOO means NO! Be the comet! | |||
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Still finding my way |
I'm ready for touches and pitchforks. "Burn it down" as they say. | |||
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| Member |
I'd question the veracity of the prosecution being a sanctuary state. The outcome was to prove a point not serve justice. ____________________________________________________ The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart. | |||
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| Member |
This is primarily a jury problem. Ignorant, uncaring for the victim and simpatico to the scumbag. And I do wonder if he was over-charged. The whole idea of a jury of your peers, especially in our current social climate, is fallacy. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Actually, after just listening to the prosecutor on TV, I'm inclined to believe it's the prosecution who were uncaring in this case... Or just incompetent. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Honestly, this is a WIN for showing the country how FUCKED up liberal feel good California is along with their sanctuary city bullshit. Sucks for the family of the victim, of course. | |||
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Bad dog! |
^^^ I agree. Kate's family has tamped down the kind of rage that leads to vigilantism. Something like this will happen again-- "sanctuary cities" are filled with lowlifes-- and some family devastated this way will not be forgiving. That is when vigilantes will enter the picture. It's increasingly clear to an ever-growing number of Americans that our most dangerous enemies are inside our borders, inside our political and legal systems. They create "sanctuary cities," for one thing. If nothing changes, they will pay a terrible price at the hands of citizens who have no faith in the justice system, and will not stand for any more outrages like the killing of Kate Steinle. ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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Member |
I worked in Pleasanton for 20 years and I still have friends there. I'm with you - I am totally disgusted with the verdict and the jury. In my mind they had predetermined this POS was not guilty and were not going to convict him of anything.
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
You understand that the defendant had admitted doing the shooting here. The question for the jury was not did he do it, but whether the doing of it in the circumstances amounted to a crime, if so, what degree. Not every homocide is a murder. Not every homocide is a crime. It seems baffling, doesn’t it? That’s why I say you ought not form knee jerk opinions before you see what the jury saw, and heard. 1. You go to the neighbors to confront him about raking leaves. An argument ensues, you return home, get your pistol, go back and shoot him to death. Probably Murder. 2. You are at the neighbors jawboning, he insults your wife and in the ensuing exchange of accusations, you pull out your pistol and shoot him. He dies. Maybe voluntary manslaughter. 3. During a neighborhood block party one night, in the midst of the festivities, you fire shots into the air. Your neighbor is killed by the bullet returning to earth. Maybe involuntary manslaughter. 4. You are sitting in your garage/arsenal working on one of your pistols. You just finish a thorough cleaning and adjusting, put it back together, load it, check the action, when your neighbor sneaks into your garage without you seeing him, and suddenly surprises you. You jump, the gun fires and your neighbor is hit and killed. Likely not a crime. This case might be a good example justifying the rules forbidding evidence of prior criminal record and immigration status, as more prejudicial than probative. It is plain that to many of you, had the shooter been an ordinary person, say a Rotary Club President, who was sitting there, found the gun which unexpectedly went off and killed this woman, would not be yammering for a conviction. Make no mistake, the question of illegals, immigration, sanctuary city nonsense, etc. are very serious, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with this man’s guilt of a ctime, any more than the US officer who lost the gun. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
What if in this scenario you were a multiple felon in possession of a stolen gun and doing all of this in a very crowded public place? ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| Still finding my way |
I pray for a lot of Paul Kersey/Frank Castle types to start popping up and taking care of these problems. | |||
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| Bad dog! |
JALLEN, you know the law better than anyone on this board. I respect your knowledge and expertise, and, generally speaking, I value the legal insights you share here. But if you don't grasp the righteous outrage in this verdict, you are missing the forest for the trees. ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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Stangosaurus Rex |
Wait until he is paid for being detained. You know his lawyers will sue! ___________________________ "I Get It Now" Beth Greene | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Cleaning your stolen pistol in a crowded public place? The prosecution may have argued that the illegal acts necessary to support voluntary manslaughter were the ones you mention. We don’t know. Keep in mind that the defense merely has to come up with reasonable doubt. The jury had to decide whether this was a homicide of one degree or another, and if those choices were reasonably in doubt by the accident scenario, that’s all it takes. Was the prosecution efficient in putting on their case? Did it unfold as expected? Were one or more witnesses impeached, made to look uncertain, doubtful, unconvincing? A trial is like a play to be performed once. If somebody muffs their lines, forgets a prop, enters mistakenly, wrong inflexion in their voice, sings a wrong note, it can ruin the play. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Just call it handling or "playing" with your pistol in a public place. And thank you for your response as my question was not rhetorical. Appreciate it. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| Member |
I have to agree with JALLEN here. We have an adversarial system and justice is supposed to be blind. We have no idea what the jury was allowed to see and hear. We all get the same protections. However, the evidence for involuntary manslaughter here seems iron clad. Most of the time juries get it right. But throughout my career in law enforcement, I saw juries acquit on ironclad evidence more than a few times. I was fond of saying that jury trials are proof that mass insanity strikes at random. However when you look more closely at these cases, more often than not it was prosecutorial or law enforcement incompetence, or a combination of both that lost the government's case. CMSGT USAF (Retired) Chief of Police (Retired) | |||
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| Official forum SIG Pro enthusiast  |
I wish California was not a part of the US. Everyday my hatred of CA grows. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance | |||
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