It's early and I haven't had my coffee yet, so I could use some help braining on this...

MIL's house was broken into a while back. Bastards came through a set of exterior French doors, damaging the same. New doors were ordered, have arrived, and are sitting on the porch. The guy she intends to hire to hang them (because her BIL told her to) is going to charge her $500 per half day, which I'm not going to allow her to do since that's insane.

Anyway... doors are the correct size. Holes, etc., are pre-drilled for knob & deadbolt, hinge areas are pre-chiseled for hinges. The door frame is not damaged at all, so it's really just a matter of taking the old doors off the hinges and screwing the new ones on.

I'm inclined to think it would be best to leave the hinges attached to the frame (to avoid unnecessary loosening of the screws) and simply unscrew the hinges at the doors themselves (reverse to install the new ones).

These are heavy SOBs, so I'll probably recruit a little extra muscle to help me hold them in place, but assuming everything is cut and lined up right, is there anything I'm not thinking about or is it really that straightforward?

(I've been known to curse a lot while hanging interior doors before, so I'm probably unnecessarily nervous about this.)

Thanks.

-Rob

You'd undoubtedly have an easier time of it were it only a single door but it's not so a lot will depend on the tolerances the manufacturer is able to maintain. I've only done 3 sets of French doors, frames and all, and even though they are matched to the frame at the factory, it is not unheard of to have to plane one or both of the doors to get them to align correctly when installed.

Your thinking on leaving the hinges attached to the frame sounds like a good idea.

Perhaps Arc or someone who does this all the time will stop by and give you a pro's perspective.

Tips.

1) Get a couple packs of shim strips. You can do the Stack and Slide with the shims to carry the weight and get the door at just the right height.

2) Check the distance from the top of the door frame to the top of the hinge on each side. Because many times a carpenter would hand fit the hinges on each side and this can result in different hinge heights on each side. Since you'll be hanging these one side at a time this can result in a mismatch if you assume the hinge height is equal on each side.

3) USE A LEVEL to insure the doors are level in BOTH vertical planes before you screw down all the hinges. I like to use one single screw on a top and bottom hinge until I am certain the door is perfectly square.

4) As noted you may find you have to do a bit of planning due to the frame not either being perfectly square or perfectly plumb, because some carpenters just won't use a Square when putting together a door frame.

A lot of modern french doors have adjustable hinges to help with getting the panels lined up. If your replacement doors have this then the adjustment "body" is on the door half of the hinge and is in a larger routed out pocket. If that is the case, then I would want to have the hinges mounted to the door first (a little loose) and attach to the frame second. Slightly loose hinges are easier to get everything lined up in the hinge pockets before you tighten it all down.

Make sure you attach any sweeps to the bottom of the door before you hang it on the frame.

Use blocks and shims to make the door level and supported while attaching hinges to the frame. Trying to have someone just hold the door while attaching the first hinge isn't recommended. (It can be done by two installers that really know what they are doing)

There is a lot that can go wrong with this one.

First is assuming the hinges on the jamb will line up properly with the new doors, they are usually close but not perfect.

Second is assuming the original doors were hung level, plumb, and square. If the original jamb is out of level, plumb, and square, you now have to adjust your nice new square doors to the messed up jambs. If those doors are steel skinned you won't have much room for adjustments.

These types of jobs are never as easy as they seem to be. It usually takes a lot of fitting to get the doors to hang with nice even reveals around the edges, seal tightly against the weather stripping, and lock securely.

Shouldn't you remove the hinge pin first? Then attach the hinge half to the door?

Ahem "freedom doors".

quote:

Originally posted by cne32507:
Shouldn't you remove the hinge pin first? Then attach the hinge half to the door?

Before doing that, I would want to be sure the old and new hinges line up. One way is to make a story pole, just a stick that is a bit shorter than the jamb height. Tack it in place (or have someone hold it very securely, while you take a pencil and mark the location of the hinges on the jamb. Then place the story pole on the hinge edge of the door (top to top), and see if your marks line up. Then, if the hinges appear to be the same brand, etc (you could remove a pin from an old one and see that it fits in the new one), this route might be the easiest.
 
Are the new doors exactly the same width and height? They old ones might have been cut to fit (perhaps to clear a threshold), in which case there could be a bit more work involved here. As others have mentioned, the original carpenters may have done some fitting in several places, so this may not be quite as easy as it seems first hand.
 

I think the chances are slim the new doors will be mortised for hinges in the same location as the previous doors. They'll be close but not enough to function properly. Were I doing it, I'd just remove the mouldings of the old door jambs inside and out to expose the fasteners. Then I'd use a reciprocating saw to cut through those fasteners. The whole door system should just push right out of the opening. Clean up under the threshold, remove old debris from studs and test fit the new door system. If it was ordered and built right, it should slip right in place. If the ext. mouldings were installed when manufactured, the door system should rest close to the proper position. If not, then be sure to center the system to the opening, check and shim for plumb and square, drive preliminary fasteners. swing doors open to expose the rest of the jambs and fasten with security screws. Dont' forget to seal the threshold before final fitting though. It sounds harder than it is. $500.00 might be a bit high, but not insultingly high. That price is probably to compensate for what can't be seen on some jobs. It averages out profitable if some go long and others short.

Since no one has asked thus far, are the replacement doors solid wood, aluminum, or fiberglass? Regardless, they are most assuredly going to need 'some' fitting to install into your existing jam.

So it goes like this...

Apparently, when she had these put in, they were a standard size.

The company that made the doors doesn't make that size any more, but did these as a custom job.

Her BIL measured.

Now that I think about it, I'm not going to be volunteering to hang these. I'll let him deal with his mess.

OR, I can give it a shot and maybe convince her that he's not trying to "be helpful", but is trying to ingratiate himself to her and needs to be told "no" every so often when he shows up unannounced to "help out" with something. Because he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:
So it goes like this...

Apparently, when she had these put in, they were a standard size.

The company that made the doors doesn't make that size any more, but did these as a custom job.

Her BIL measured.

Now that I think about it, I'm not going to be volunteering to hang these. I'll let him deal with his mess.

OR, I can give it a shot and maybe convince her that he's not trying to "be helpful", but is trying to ingratiate himself to her and needs to be told "no" every so often when he shows up unannounced to "help out" with something. Because he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

-Rob

A wise course of action. There was a high probability of things going wrong with that, IMO.

First measure the hinge locations on the door and frame. Stick a tape measure inside frame against top of frame to top of first hinge then measure door from top of door to top of first hinge. Door should be 1/8 less than frame. this allows for top clearance. Repeat for all hinges. Measure total height of doors and total inside height of frame opening. Obviously door size should be less. How much depends on bottom sweep. Measure total width of frame opening and total width of doors combined, door measurement should be approx. 3/8 less. Think old adage measure twice cut once. Do not just try to muscle door up to hinge, good way to hurt you or door. Put something cylindrical under door to be used to lever door up to hinge, you can also roll door up to or away from hinge. Place cylinder under door about 2/3 away from hinge side. I have used dowels , screw drivers etc. Think fulcrum. I have hung hundreds of doors by myself using this method, many weighing several hundred pounds.

Go to Ask the Builder and look at has videos to get an idea if you can do the job:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/s...ing%20french%20doors

Insurance isn't covering the install?

quote:

Originally posted by kent j:
First measure the hinge locations on the door and frame. Stick a tape measure inside frame against top of frame to top of first hinge then measure door from top of door to top of first hinge. Door should be 1/8 less than frame. this allows for top clearance. Repeat for all hinges. Measure total height of doors and total inside height of frame opening. Obviously door size should be less. How much depends on bottom sweep. Measure total width of frame opening and total width of doors combined, door measurement should be approx. 3/8 less. Think old adage measure twice cut once. Do not just try to muscle door up to hinge, good way to hurt you or door. Put something cylindrical under door to be used to lever door up to hinge, you can also roll door up to or away from hinge. Place cylinder under door about 2/3 away from hinge side. I have used dowels , screw drivers etc. Think fulcrum. I have hung hundreds of doors by myself using this method, many weighing several hundred pounds.

This is why a pro wants $500 to do the job.

As some have said previously a lot can go wrong on this install. $500 for 4 to 5 hours is not out of line. Are these doors wood cased?

I had to take a door off to remove the frame last night to get a couch in our basement. I left the hinges on the door and used an ammo can to hold the door up, super simple.

MIL's house....(because her BIL told her to). BIL measured....

I don't need to read anything else....You would be well advised to NOT get involved here!

As armfel said, There's a high probability of things going wrong with that.

The cost to fix the install if you cant get it done, and your MIL has a giant open hole in the house is $500 per 1/4 hour

We ordered a door, double and triple checked
the measurements, it was a single door swing out
for the back of the garage into a concrete wall opening for an old door. Had a second person remeasure, check the figures.

The door came in, was delivered and was 1.5 inches too tall, now we had an open hole, and a door that wouldn't fit, so we ended up cutting down the frame and door to fit, the mistake was not checking the door measurement prior to taking out the old door.

So check everything, make sure they made it to your specifications prior to even taking anything apart.