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McNoob
Picture of xantom
posted
I know there has been a ton of threads on this forum about this topic. I didn't get any results from the searches I did. If there is an active thread out there, please point me there. I currently have a cheap Zmodo 4 cam DVR system. I want to replace that with something considerably better.

What I am looking to accomplish:
• 6-7 outdoor cams
• 3-4 indoor cams
• 1 -2 of those cams with a mic and speaker for communication.
• Ability to record in the dark or “night vision “.
• Ability to access my cams on my mobile device, or from a PC not on my LAN.
• High resolution cameras, ability to see faces and license plates.
• Good easy to use software my girlfriend could operate.
• If possible 1 motorized cam that I can operate remotely.
• Ability to get video from NVR/ DVR as needed quickly.

From the quick searching I did it looks like a POE NVR system is probably what I am looking for? Running cables and/or power lines shouldn’t be a hindrance or issue. Hope this is enough to get started, any suggestions or thoughts are appreciated.




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
You have to look at and choose the cameras itself individually to do the job.
No one camera will do all of those requirements well.
Definitely is possible.
Look at IP cams and a NVR system (basically a mini computer to combine all the pics, control everything and also record events.
This is also possible with software only on a computer called VMS (vid mgt soft) that can do the same thing.
Others have used "Blue Iris" but there are several others. I use Video Insight for commercial applications.
Some basic cam notes:
* Uber-high resolution cams do poorer in low light.
* LPR (licence plate) cams are not the same as everyday cams.
* There are specila "low light" cams that work much better in this situation but are different (color) that just using Infrared to illuminate at night (B&W).
* A cam with WDR (wide dynamic range) will allow for a partial lit area and a dark area ( like a doorway), but true WDR cams are multi-imaging and E-WDR (electronic).
* PTZ cams (pan/tilt/zoom) cams are cool but not that practical in real life).
* get the correct form factor for the job, bullet works best outside, dome units where security and ascetic's of the camera are important.
* Facial Recognition requires min 60 PPF (pixels per foot) so choose a camera where that can be achieved based on the distance from the cam.
* The biggest thing in the all-in-one system sets is the one size fits all cams. Most are very wide and the resolution lessens over distance. Get an appropriate cam for the scene intended.

YMMV
 
Posts: 14329 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
McNoob
Picture of xantom
posted Hide Post
Thanks for that info. I will try to find some components and see what you think. This is for my home and we definitely are not in a high crime area. I am really just looking to improve on what I have, which isn't muchSmile

So quick question, if I get an NVR with POE plugs, is it possible to incorporate WiFi cams along with the IP cams?




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
still exist
posted Hide Post
I had a bunch of WiFi cams. Dumped all but 1 of them for PoE.

They cut out often, and just required a lot of handholding.

I'm down to 1 WiFi cam which is in a place where I cannot route Cat5E.


.
 
Posts: 6470 | Location: Mom's Basement | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
McNoob
Picture of xantom
posted Hide Post
Thoughts on this NVR? Looks like this accepts POE and WiFi IP cams. Up to 8TB of Storage.

https://www.cctvcameraworld.co...el-nvr-poe-h264.html

I can then pickup any IP PoE or WiFi Cams and just connect? I would need to install a couple HDD's too.




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
quote:
So quick question, if I get an NVR with POE plugs, is it possible to incorporate WiFi cams along with the IP cams?


Short answer is yes but I would advise to use as few WIFI cams as possible for a variety of performance and security reasons.
 
Posts: 14329 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Avoid Wifi cams and follow the advice of smschulz, he does this stuff.

Head over to ipcamtalk.com, lots of good info and good folks to help out.

Basically the box systems from the big Box stores by and large give you a false sense of security as the cameras that come with them are mostly all wide angle fixed lens - Pretty picture, little usable evidence.

Don't get caught up in the mega pixel game, currently the 2MP low light "Starlight" type cameras perform far better at night than even most 8MP cameras.


____________________________
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Posts: 2658 | Location: Orlando Area | Registered: February 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
McNoob
Picture of xantom
posted Hide Post
I have LAN ports throughout my house, but when I installed all the infrastructure I didn't account for PoE ports. From what I am reading I would need to have PoE on any switches or my router to actually get power to the cam, is that correct? I have 1 router, and 3 8 port Gigabit switches. All outdoor cams would be PoE only, indoor cams would us Wifi if I couldn't get a LAN cable to them




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by xantom:
Thoughts on this NVR? Looks like this accepts POE and WiFi IP cams. Up to 8TB of Storage.

https://www.cctvcameraworld.co...el-nvr-poe-h264.html

I can then pickup any IP PoE or WiFi Cams and just connect? I would need to install a couple HDD's too.


It accepts 16 cams but only 8 POE ports?

Also if you want to consider the future note that the compression level protocol for most now is h264 (this allows the video to be smaller and faster over the wire) and now H265 is out and works MUCH better. This means you can have higher resolution vids with much less bandwidth and much less storage space and even makes procession more efficient.

A couple of the MAJOR manufacturers for cams are:
HikVision > which has many oems like LTS, Advidia and many more.
Dahau > also under their name and others.
Others like Axis, Bosch etc are more commercial aka more expensive but good.

Pick each cam spec first then match to their NVR.

A couple of very useful tools:

https://ipvm.com/camera-finder

https://calculator.ipvm.com/
 
Posts: 14329 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
Picture of henryaz
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I have several PoE devices in use (two Wi-Fi Access Points and an IP camera). I tried using a PoE switch, but it runs hot and uses fans which can go out. I now prefer to use PoE injectors. A bit more clutter, but less worry. The clutter is in an out-of-the-way location in the laundry room. Plus you can service devices with different PoE standards requirements, by buying a PoE injector specific to each device.
 
 
Posts: 7265 | Location: South Congress AZ | Registered: May 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Proud member of
the vanning collective
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
I decided to use my PC as my NVR coupled with BlueIris software.
I am adding cameras slowly as money comes along. I went this route so I was not really locked into one company for anything so I would have a wider range of cameras to choose from based on location.
I am currently using my regular PC with no issues but only have a couple cameras at the moment.
If I start to lag a bit I'll buy a PC like this and have a dedicated machine.

2016 HP 6300 Pro Small Form Factor Business Desktop Computer, Intel Core i5 Quad Core Processor up to 3.6GHz, 16GB DDR3 RAM, 2TB HDD, DVDRW, Windows Professional (Certified Refurbished) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J...cp_api_mF56zb64GNZ6Z

I have an Amcrest camera I am very happy with (though their software sucks but BlueIris alliviates that).

My first Dahua camera just arrived and my POE injector should arrive today.
All the rest of my camera will be mounted on the eaves of my house so I will put a multi port POE injector switch in the attic and run the cameras to that.

BlueIris is nice as it is a $60 purchase for PC program and mobile App. No monthly fee like many require for remote monitoring and email and SMS alerts.
A little bit of a learning curve but if I can do it and get it setup (with a couple questions posed here and watching YouTube videos) anyone can do it.


--------------------------------------
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
Soren Kierkegaard
 
Posts: 18253 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For the past three years I have been using Blue Iris. After trying three brands of cameras I settled on LTS Cameras. I have been very satisfied with their POE cameras.
 
Posts: 762 | Location: Windermere, Florida | Registered: February 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
McNoob
Picture of xantom
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I am leaning towards building a PC and running everything off of Blue Iris. I will put a rig together and let you guys look it over. Black92LX, the tower you posted is a 3rd gen core i5. The Blue Iris web site recommends an i7 with quick sync for multiple/many cams.

For your blue iris setup are you guys also using a PoE switch? I was considering this one:

https://www.amazon.com/BV-Tech...&keywords=poe+switch

Thoughts?




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 0658:
For the past three years I have been using Blue Iris. After trying three brands of cameras I settled on LTS Cameras. I have been very satisfied with their POE cameras.


BI is good. IIRC, some of the LTS cams are rebranded Hikvisions, which are good.

I went with a combo of Hikvision and Dahua. All are IP with PoE, except for one WiFi where there is no choice in the matter.

I dumped Foscam since they sucked.


.
 
Posts: 6470 | Location: Mom's Basement | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Proud member of
the vanning collective
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by xantom:
I am leaning towards building a PC and running everything off of Blue Iris. I will put a rig together and let you guys look it over. Black92LX, the tower you posted is a 3rd gen core i5. The Blue Iris web site recommends an i7 with quick sync for multiple/many cams.

For your blue iris setup are you guys also using a PoE switch? I was considering this one:

https://www.amazon.com/BV-Tech...&keywords=poe+switch

Thoughts?


In another thread I posted about Blue Iris the consensus is that the i5 will do just fine as most of the processing is at the camera.
The i7 is needed for some of the higher end video processing.

As for the switch I have not looked too much at them yet.

I have 1 injector at the moment once I start string the cameras upstairs in the attic I'll need a switch.


--------------------------------------
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
Soren Kierkegaard
 
Posts: 18253 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
McNoob
Picture of xantom
posted Hide Post
quote:
In another thread I posted about Blue Iris the consensus is that the i5 will do just fine as most of the processing is at the camera.
The i7 is needed for some of the higher end video processing.


Thanks for the info, I think I am just going to go with an i7 unless there is evidence it's way overkill.

Here's the PC I put together, let me know what you guys think. I thought I would run the OS and Software off of an SSD and use a 4TB WD Purple for Video. Should I have a separate NIC on this box too?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bHM2XH




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tag for future
 
Posts: 3401 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by xantom:
quote:
In another thread I posted about Blue Iris the consensus is that the i5 will do just fine as most of the processing is at the camera.
The i7 is needed for some of the higher end video processing.


Thanks for the info, I think I am just going to go with an i7 unless there is evidence it's way overkill.

Here's the PC I put together, let me know what you guys think. I thought I would run the OS and Software off of an SSD and use a 4TB WD Purple for Video. Should I have a separate NIC on this box too?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bHM2XH


Near-top of the line processor & bottom of the barrel motherboard? In my experience cheaping out on the MB isn't wise. H170 is about as low as I'd go.
You can get 4x4GB ram on Amazon cheaper than that 2x8GB kit (bought one 2mos ago for $85).

I'd suggest looking around at the dell or HP outlet, you won't be paying 135 for windows, so your hardware options might be better. Slap an SSD in & you're GTG.
 
Posts: 2278 | Location: IN | Registered: January 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
McNoob
Picture of xantom
posted Hide Post
quote:
Near-top of the line processor & bottom of the barrel motherboard? In my experience cheaping out on the MB isn't wise. H170 is about as low as I'd go.
You can get 4x4GB ram on Amazon cheaper than that 2x8GB kit (bought one 2mos ago for $85).


I am not going to overclock my CPU or run this in a RAID configuration. Is there something else I would need an H170 for? The MOBO I selected only has 2 Slots for RAM. I am open to suggestions for a different MOBO though.


quote:
I'd suggest looking around at the dell or HP outlet, you won't be paying 135 for windows, so your hardware options might be better. Slap an SSD in & you're GTG.


I doubt any off the shelf Dell or HP, in alike configuration is going to be had for less. I checked around and nothing really stood out to me. Do you have any links to something comparable? Putting an SSD and a 4TB HDD is going to raise the cost of anything by ~$250.

Core i7-7700
16GB RAM
120GB SSD
4TB Western Digital Purple HDD
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
McNoob
Picture of xantom
posted Hide Post
These are the cams I am considering:
https://www.amazon.com/Unitech...rds=poe%2Bh.265&th=1

3 in the front
3 in the back
1 in my garage

Can't seem to find an outdoor cam for my front door that has 2 way audio. Just going to forego that for now. If you know of one please post a link. I don't have a lot of space so it has to be compact. I have a bullet cam there now and it's about all I could fit there.

Might upgrade to some PZT cams in the future, probably not practical but they sure look coolSmile




"We've done four already, but now we're steady..."
 
Posts: 734 | Location: MN | Registered: November 20, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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