I was out at a retail store today and saw something that I had never seen before. Perhaps it wasn't even legitimate.

A woman dressed in regular clothes wearing dog tags around her neck. She had a dog with a vest that had a "PTSD Support Animal" patch sewn on. She was also open carrying what looked to be a Bersa 380, in a nylon Uncle Mike's type of holster.

Perhaps it was bad for me to judge, but my first thought was that if she couldn't go out in public without an emotional support animal, she probably shouldn't be armed. Then again, maybe she was just seeking attention.

Not a complaint, she was acting normally so not even a concern. Just something I noticed that was new for me.

She may have been training the animal for its future recipient.

Thank God no one in legislation agrees with you yet.

You'd strip our veterans of their 2nd amendment rights....because it makes you uncomfortable?

I'm sure we could go into statistics about LEO's still on the job with legitimate PTSD, and Military members, still serving with PTSD...not to mention the amount of women and others with PTSD as a result of rape and other violent crimes.....but sure...let's take away their 2nd amendment rights because you don't like it....

Rethink this.

Maybe she got the vest through a site like this:

https://therapypet.org/

The cynic in me agrees with you that if she needs an emotional support animal she should not be armed. But what do I know...

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I'm sure we could go into statistics about LEO's still on the job with legitimate PTSD, and Military members, still serving with PTSD...not to mention the amount of women and others with PTSD as a result of rape and other violent crimes.....but sure...let's take away their 2nd amendment rights because you don't like it....

That wasn't the issue at all. I thought I was clear on that.

My issue was not the PTSD, but rather the PTSD so severe that it required an emotional support animal. If legitimate, and I'm not 100% sure it was, if you can't go out in public without a support animal, you may not be well enough to be armed. Especially since severe PTSD may put the person in fear when no danger exists.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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I'm sure we could go into statistics about LEO's still on the job with legitimate PTSD, and Military members, still serving with PTSD...not to mention the amount of women and others with PTSD as a result of rape and other violent crimes.....but sure...let's take away their 2nd amendment rights because you don't like it....

That wasn't the issue at all. I thought I was clear on that.

My issue was not the PTSD, but rather the PTSD so severe that it required an emotional support animal.

What acceptable level of PTSD in your trained opinion warrants the removal of a person's right to bear arms?

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What acceptable level of PTSD in your trained opinion warrants the removal of a person's right to bear arms?

What acceptable level of other mental issues warrants the removal of a person's rights?

I'd say it's when that level reaches a point where it may be dangerous to the person or those around them.

Seems like every swinging Richard has caught on and figured out the way to bring your dog everywhere is by slapping a vest on it that says "support" of some sort.

There's no questioning it.

I knew a guy who did that. He sure as hell didn't have PTSD refueling planes in Texas but he had some emotional issues. Maybe mommy and daddy didn't hug/kiss him enough. Brought his American Bulldog everywhere, even to the basketball courts without it being leashed. It had run after other dogs before, those dogs were leashed. He was lucky someone didn't shoot his damn dog.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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What acceptable level of PTSD in your trained opinion warrants the removal of a person's right to bear arms?

What acceptable level of other mental issues warrants the removal of a person's rights?

I'd say it's when that level reaches a point where it may be dangerous to the person or those around them.

A point in which the law has already determined that a medical/psychological professional can make. Someone with a legitimate PTSD service animal, is very likely in the care of such a professional.

You felt it important enough to come in here and post publicly about it. You have a problem with people needing service animals too? Was the service animal a bogus animal without any training? Did this person somehow actually do something that made you feel unsafe?

I've never picked up on the snowflake vibe from you before...so I'm trying really hard here to give you the benefit of doubt.

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Seems like every swinging Richard has caught on and figured out the way to bring your dog everywhere is by slapping a vest on it that says "support" of some sort.

It certainly wasn't any official type of vest. It was a patch that was sewn on a regular looking harness.

That combined with the dog tags and with the open carry (not very common here in Missouri) is what also made me believe she may not be legitimate. Could be more of a "look at me and give me attention" sort of thing.

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A point in which the law has already determined that a medical/psychological professional can make. Someone with a legitimate PTSD service animal, is very likely in the care of such a professional.

You felt it important enough to come in here and post publicly about it. You have a problem with people needing service animals too? Was the service animal a bogus animal without any training? Did this person somehow actually do something that made you feel unsafe?

I've never picked up on the snowflake vibe from you before...so I'm trying really hard here to give you the benefit of doubt.

You're not picking up on it now either. Had I been concerned I wouldn't have remained near her with my two small children and perhaps I would have called the police.

I felt compelled to come here and talk about it because in all 40 years of my life on this earth I have never seen such a thing. And I've seen a lot of stuff.

I also have friends who have seen a lot of stuff. A few of them even have/had PTSD (service related). Most of them have guns. None of them ever had it to such an extent that an animal was required.

In these parts open carry is legal, especially if you possess a concealed permit. I spend roughly 12 hours a day out in public. Up until now, and not counting the planned protesters, I have never seen somebody open carrying. And the one time I do it's this woman who has other stuff going on that grabs my attention.

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What acceptable level of other mental issues warrants the removal of a person's rights?

I'd say it's when that level reaches a point where it may be dangerous to the person or those around them.

There is considerable controversy regarding this issue. It is complicated and cannot be based on a simple Diagnosis of PTSD. Many states prohibit purchase of firearms by individuals who have been committed against their will to an inpatient psychiatric facility. Typically, that involves an examination by a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist that determines whether the person is dangerous to themselves or others or unable to take care of themselves in the community.

At one time, there was a bill pending that would prohibit anyone receiving social security disability and having a payee as being unable to possess a firearm. This bill was not made law, but gives you an idea of the overreaching of our government.

What about all the crazy motherfuckers that have no external "indicators" like you think you saw with that women, around you, everyday, everywhere you go?

All those batshit crazy, maybe gonna pop your eyes out and skull fuck you types, that look well adjusted and all "normal" like, but underneath that all American exterior...

What do you do about them?


Me? I am only afraid of being afraid.

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That combined with the dog tags and with the open carry (not very common here in Missouri) is what also made me believe she may not be legitimate. Could be more of a "look at me and give me attention" sort of thing.

Open carry is hardly ever tactically intelligent, most legitimate PTSD dogs that come from legitimate trainers also come with a fairly official looking vest of some sort, but it's really up to the disabled person to determine what the dog wears. The rules on this are quite lax. I work with a lot of veterans who utilize dogs for PTSD, and it changes their lives. I've only known of a very select few that needed their 2nd amendment rights to be revoked, and in those cases there were lots of other reasons to revoke them besides PTSD. You interact with people who have PTSD probably a lot more than you realize. It is difficult enough to accept an outward revealing label by utilizing a service animal, it's also difficult to consider getting help when someone has to be scared of losing their guns as well. To LEO's and Veterans, having your firearms removed is a really big deal. People who have zero understanding of what PTSD is and is not, really shouldn't be making blanket judgements about removing other's rights. I'm choosing to believe that you aren't posting this as one of those people, but rather that you simply witnessed someone doing something you don't see very often.

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but rather that you simply witnessed someone doing something you don't see very often.

That and it wasn't so convincing on top of that. Of course I'm not going to be "that guy" and open my mouth about it.

Either way something didn't strike me as right about it.

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What about all the crazy motherfuckers that have no external "indicators" like you think you saw with that women, around you, everyday, everywhere you go?

I'm used to seeing them.

I did a google search for the patch, and of course one of the first results is one sold on Amazon.

There are many other psychological disorders other than PTSD that could pose a problem. The majority of patients with PTSD are not dangerous to others. Individuals who are likely to harm others range from adolescents with poor impulse control, individuals who have serious alcohol and drug problems, those that are psychotic, and sociopaths. If the average person knew what goes through the minds of some people they would never leave their homes.

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There are many other psychological disorders other than PTSD that could pose a problem.

Sure. Had a former neighbor some years back that fit that description. One day I saw him with a gun and had the same gut reaction. It didn't seem right.

He shot himself about a year ago. Never harmed anybody else.

Carrying a Bersa in a nylon holster. Obviously there's a problem.

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Carrying a Bersa in a nylon holster. Obviously there's a problem.

It wasn't just one thing. It was the whole picture that rung my bell.

Her shirt was long enough to cover the gun, but she intentionally had it out. She intentionally had her dog tags out front and center. In honesty, I probably wouldn't have even noticed either of the other two if she didn't have the dog with the big patch on it.

I have a "Smelling Nose Dog" to protect me from Sarin gas. If he detects the smell of Sarin gas, he is trained to start howling.

So far so good.

I've never been killed by Sarin gas.

I thought about training him to detect Commies, but here in Northern Virginia, near DC, he'd never stop howling.