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Picture of mutedblade
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quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
What acceptable level of PTSD in your trained opinion warrants the removal of a person's right to bear arms?



What acceptable level of other mental issues warrants the removal of a person's rights?

I'd say it's when that level reaches a point where it may be dangerous to the person or those around them.


Did this lady walk around threatening to kill everyone she came across?

Don't fall into the leftist trap regarding guns and PTSD. They'd have you believe that all gun owners are mentally deficient in some way or another, and what you are saying right now is giving them credence.

Why should a person (even if they truly have PTSD and a service dog) ever give up their right to protect themselves? Does a diagnosis automatically protect them from thugs as if it is some kind of barrier or force field? There are no laws (that I know of) that specifically talk about the ownership/use of a firearm, PTSD, and PTSD support dogs. If there is, someone please point it out to me.

In reality, a true service dog, especially for PTSD, will help keep the individual calmer and allow them to think before acting upon a perceived threat; so in that regard, the dog is there for your benefit, not hers. She may have been a rape victim (and probably was) and the first thing you want to do is come in here saying that because she has a dog, that she shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun! Come on, you can do better than that. Part of therapy for PTSD is to put yourself back out in the world. Go shopping at a mall, see a movie, go to a car show. She is doing that and you felt it necessary to come in here and basically state that a dog is a replacement for a gun.

Imagine the pain and anguish and stress that a person with PTSD goes through in a day. I feel that it is a big reason why veterans end up killing themselves. The emotional service dogs cut back on some of that mental anguish and help reduce the stress to levels which may allow that vet to operate outside of their home and live a fulfilling life instead of taking their own life. The gun just offers a little extra security for those that feel the need to have it, much like you do when you carry I would assume! I think your biggest issue right now is that you saw someone open carrying a gun, and you are throwing in the extraneous bullshit in there to mess with us Wink


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Posts: 1128 | Location: Lake Anna, VA | Registered: May 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Once a Marine,
always a Marine
Picture of Ronin1069
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oh boy...


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Posts: 8782 | Location: Belly of the Beast | Registered: January 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
On the DL
Picture of V-Tail
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quote:
Originally posted by Ronin1069:
oh boy...
My thought, exactly.



A mind is a terrible thing.
 
Posts: 15997 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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What needs to be tightened up on is the fakers, and where legitimate support animals can go. The whole "service animal" and "support animal" are two different things. And the water is so muddy that no one wants to tackle it by telling someone with an out of control animal to GTFO for fear of lawsuit.

Service and Support animals should never be allowed to be a nuisance to other people. I don't care how we explain it away. They should never be allowed to be a nuisance. And if there is someone who is allergic to the animal? You've got to go. Just because your doc has given you a piece of paper for your emotional support pit bull, you should never be allowed to inconvenience other people. And there is no way you can tell me that they should.

This entire thing is out of hand.


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30555 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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"People who have zero understanding of what PTSD is and is not, really shouldn't be making blanket judgements about removing other's rights. "

I'd like to hop on AKSuperdually's statement and add this ....

Unless you are a psychologist or medical professional, maybe you should MYOB.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers


 
Posts: 4672 | Location: 35-46.02N 077-55.54W | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
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quote:
She is doing that and you felt it necessary to come in here and basically state that a dog is a replacement for a gun.



I see where this is going. Now I hate people with PTSD.....

Didn't say anything anywhere near close to that. It seems that many take what I say, apply whatever preconceived notions and biases they have, and then attempt to twist what I said to support their assertions.

I have only said two things:

1) It didn't seem right. Something was off. She may not be legitimate.

and

2) It didn't seem right. Something was off. If somebody is not well enough that they require external emotional support, it is possible they are not well enough to be armed.


quote:
"People who have zero understanding of what PTSD is and is not, really shouldn't be making blanket judgements about removing other's rights. "


Didn't do that either.


quote:
Unless you are a psychologist or medical professional, maybe you should MYOB.


Even if I was a psychologist or medical professional, she wouldn't have been my patient, and I would have still been minding my business.

And I did mind my business. Said one word to her while we were in the store. "Hi" as I walked past and made eye contact. Said two words to the other woman she was with. "Thank you" as she attempted to hold the door open for my family as we walked in behind them.

But in either event, I'm well aware of what is going around me in public, and tend to notice things that are different than normal. If that's not "minding my own business" then too bad.


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Posts: 12175 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
"People who have zero understanding of what PTSD is and is not, really shouldn't be making blanket judgements about removing other's rights. "

I'd like to hop on AKSuperdually's statement and add this ....

Unless you are a psychologist or medical professional, maybe you should MYOB.


Fellas, I just don't know if you guys really want to hang your hat on that. So, you are saying that people are not allowed to judge unless they are a qualified medical professional? I see. Would that be the same qualified medical professionals that are over diagnosing PTSD at a terrible rate? Get a bad order of chicken nuggets at McD's? You qualify for PTSD. Everyone has been diagnosed with it these days. And that damn near seems where it is right now. Probably half or better of the constant problems that the police deal with have "crazy papers" from PTSD. Yeah, I'm not a medical professional. But, I can sure as shit tell you that they are using their "crazy papers" as a crutch to do what they want and try to blame their bad behavior on something that isn't their fault. They know what they are doing, and it is intentional. Yep, not a medical professional. But, I am smart enough to read peoples actions. And see the dramatic change when the need to dole out the "crazy papers" comes. They also get prescribed a ton of medication. None of which they take. They sell it if they can. I even had a guy that had PSTD once. He explained it was a "worser form" of PTSD. Another guy was diagnosed in the Army for the combat he saw in Vietnam. He was born in 1965. Of all mental illnesses, PTSD is the most over diagnosed, and over faked out there. Half of society finds that a diagnosis of PTSD is a badge of honor, and another step closer to being "disabled" for the purposes of drawing a check. And the "medical professionals" seem to more than willing to diagnose it to assist them. It is an easy thing, as they aren't a danger to themselves or others so they can send them back home, and let them get their draw check in peace.

Propping these people up with a MYOB and "Don't Judge" seems like the wrong course of action. And it takes away from those who legitimately need help.

I would think that those who are legitimately supportive and passionate of PTSD victims might also want the fakers exposed and ran out. And have the "medical professionals" held accountable. Instead of discounting that people should mind their own business.

The mental health system in this country is not broken, it is non-existent. And we shouldn't be spending what little resources we have on fakers. We should be weeding out the fakers. We should spend those resources on the people that really need it.

This thread sorta reminds me of the threads that come up from time to time about handicap parking stickers. And the guys that park in a handicap spot, and then take off running into a store. And the people that come out to defend them because "the people judging aren't doctors". Yeah, but some people can be pretty smart. And through being perceptive and pretty smart you can figure out the ones that are full of shit that get the diagnosis for the benefits.


_______________________________________________________________________
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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30555 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
posted Hide Post
Blah blah blah blah blah. (not directed at jones)

quote:
you should MYOB

Indeed.

Dog, no dog, right patch, wrong patch, whatever.

You do you.

Short of some clearly fucked up actions - why care?
 
Posts: 21325 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
quote:
Indeed.

Dog, no dog, right patch, wrong patch, whatever.

You do you.



Man....the forum is going to loose a lot of posts if nobody can discuss observations they have made involving third parties. Wink


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Posts: 12175 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:

I see where this is going. Now I hate people with PTSD.....

And veterans. You hate veterans too.

Razz


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"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13141 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:

I see where this is going. Now I hate people with PTSD.....

And veterans. You hate veterans too.

Razz


And open carry and dogs. Maybe malls?


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30555 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
quote:
And veterans. You hate veterans too.



Only the pretend ones. Wink


quote:
And open carry and dogs. Maybe malls?


Not to be rude to the dog, but it was a scruffy looking thing. Probably from the pound. Cute in his own way. This was likely yet another thing that made it "off" for me. I know service animals come in all phylum, classes, orders, families, and genera, but typically when I see a service animal it's a lab, GSD, or retriever.

And Hobby Lobby. I love me some Hobby Lobby. We were there buying some new model rockets and motors so my 6 year old and I could play North Korea.


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Posts: 12175 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Rail-less
and
Tail-less
posted Hide Post
I posted this on FB a few months back and it seems appropriate now....

Today I witnessed seemingly healthy 20-something female scold two small children (around the age of 5) for attempting to interact with her "Service dog." The children never attempted to pet the dog merely made funny faces at him and waved. She sternly said to them "leave him alone he is working!" Really? What exactly is he doing? Is he counting your money at the register? Is he carrying your bags to the car? Get the fuck over yourself. You aren't blind or physically disabled in any way. If you are too emotionally fragile or delicate to be out in public without your dog maybe you aren't meant to be standing in line at Best Buy bitching at your enabling mom about how parents need to supervise their children better. I would venture a guess that your upbringing had a lot to do with your current state of psychological fragility. Roll Eyes #glasshouses


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Posts: 11570 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
We were there buying some new model rockets and motors so my 6 year old and I could play North Korea.


Are you going to get the bad haircut, or the six year old?


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30555 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Seriously? Nobody here other than a1abdj thinks this person sounds... "off" for lack of a better word?

Support animal with sketchy patch, specifically naming the disorder. Not "Emotional Support Dog" or "Support Dog"... but "PTSD Support Dog"?

Dog tags worn outside the clothes?

AND

Open carry?

This doesn't sound "unusual" to you? The whole combo together?

Not "OMG call the cops!" unusual... but "think I'll share this with my pals on SigForum" unusual?

The whole emotional support animal thing is definitely out of control. The airport looks like a fucking zoo these days.
 
Posts: 1230 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: April 24, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
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quote:
Are you going to get the bad haircut, or the six year old?


Since I'm loosing mine, it's got to be him. Right next door was a vacant space being seasonally occupied by one of the big Halloween retailers. I'm hoping they have his wig/costume this year.


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Posts: 12175 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Am The Walrus
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
What needs to be tightened up on is the fakers, and where legitimate support animals can go. The whole "service animal" and "support animal" are two different things. And the water is so muddy that no one wants to tackle it by telling someone with an out of control animal to GTFO for fear of lawsuit.

Service and Support animals should never be allowed to be a nuisance to other people. I don't care how we explain it away. They should never be allowed to be a nuisance. And if there is someone who is allergic to the animal? You've got to go. Just because your doc has given you a piece of paper for your emotional support pit bull, you should never be allowed to inconvenience other people. And there is no way you can tell me that they should.

This entire thing is out of hand.


Are they protected under the ADA?

I think someone tried to use farm animals for "emotional support" animals before. Think I read about it here on the forum.

quote:
Originally posted by PeterGV:
Seriously? Nobody here other than a1abdj thinks this person sounds... "off" for lack of a better word?

Support animal with sketchy patch, specifically naming the disorder. Not "Emotional Support Dog" or "Support Dog"... but "PTSD Support Dog"?

Dog tags worn outside the clothes?

AND

Open carry?

This doesn't sound "unusual" to you? The whole combo together?

Not "OMG call the cops!" unusual... but "think I'll share this with my pals on SigForum" unusual?

The whole emotional support animal thing is definitely out of control. The airport looks like a fucking zoo these days.


Is the airport as bad as Home Depot or Lowe's? Big Grin

Veterans know that we never wore our dog tags outside of our clothes. At least not veterans of OIF/OEF. Seemed like the Vietnam guys just wore flak jackets without anything else underneath while chain smoking cigarettes. Big Grin


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Posts: 8391 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: March 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
Picture of gw3971
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How did the dog behave? If the dog was mellow, well behaved and stayed by her side it might have been an actual trained assistance animal. They don't wonder or investigate or act like a normal dog. I'm betting your initial assessment is correct and this is just another person who wants to take her dog every where.

I don't get why anyone would want to label their disability for all to see with a PTSD tag on their animal when a Service dog tag would suffice? Hell I know a couple of vets who are physically disabled and they won't even park in a handicapped spot.
 
Posts: 5689 | Location: Riverton , Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Conservative in Nor Cal constantly swimming
up stream
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I was at breakfast last week outside on the patio and the couple next to us had a PTSD dog.

I asked about it and they laughed and said they bought it online and the put it on the vest as a joke.

Not a real thing. I would think it would just say service animal if real. Heck you can buy the service animal vests on line too.


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Posts: 2232 | Location: Nor Cal | Registered: January 25, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
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What I'm gathering from many recent threads is only:

psychiatrists can talk about mental health,
doctors can talk about health issues,
pilots can talk about airplanes,
ship captains can talk about ships,
cops can talk about crimes and shootings,
CDL holders can talk about pickup trucks,
lawyers can talk about laws,
jimmy can talk about everything,

and the rest of us are clueless idiots.
 
Posts: 3222 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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