quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
#2, while being open to the possibility/likelihood of #1 as a precursor/complement to #2.

As in, the universe may very well be created, designed, and ran by a Creator, but with it also having taking millions of years of evolution, guided by both intelligent design and direct intervention, to get to where we are today.

The ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

deist?

#1. I have no doubt that God created us.

I’ve looked into this with an open mind, read quite a bit, and talked to people who have studied it as their life’s work (evolutionary biologists, etc). Here’s what I’ve figured out:

1. We are not aware of a scientifically sound bottom up explanation. Darwinian evolution may explain variations in species over time but it cannot explain the emergence of species, let alone life. I’m not knocking Darwin, he produced a beautiful theory based on what he knew at the time, but now that we understand some things - like DNA and the function of cells, his theory doesn’t work. To be clear, we still don’t understand everything about DNA (it turns out non coding regions actually matter) or cells (they are far more complicated than we can comprehend), which is part of the problem. Could there be such an explanation? Sure, but we don’t know what it is. Energy is certainly an interesting possibility but we don’t know what it is either.

2. The top down explanations, which we could call intelligent design, are as scientifically valid as any other theory. From a scientific perspective they are just that - theories. If you work from the top down you have to necessarily postulate an uncaused first cause. But that’s nothing new-Aristotle called it the unmoved mover long ago.

Where does that leave us? Scientifically, with viable but unproved theories on both sides. Philosophically, with a very significant unanswered question. In both cases, any firm belief is ultimately grounded in faith and unprovable assumptions.

I believe in the top down explanation because it has the best evidence supporting it.

#1

God

If not #1, then who cares?

5,2,7. In that order.

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?

Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.

#1...God...no doubt for me.

Good question.

People want to drive a wedge between creation and evolution, who says God didn't create life on earth and also trigger the evolutionary process by which life grows and changes over time.

Currently, I think God started the ball rolling when He set the tiniest molecule of life that he created into motion on this void. All the living things we see now are a result or God's single action in that moment. God knew that his creation would evolve into what it is now and God knows what it will be in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?

Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.

Well, with respect to the OP’s specific question, such curiosity has neither solved the question nor benefited mankind - despite mankind’s striving throughout history.

Certainly, scientific investigation is worthy for providing new tools, delaying death (and / or easing the process of death) and other transitory improvements. But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

Thus, some value certain forms of curiosity, while others see such as ‘vanity of vanities’.

quote:

But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

That's because wisdom is not the same as knowledge. Wisdom must be earned through individual experience. It isn't passed down through our genes.
Technology changes. Human nature remains the same.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

That's because wisdom is not the same as knowledge. Wisdom must be earned through individual experience. It isn't passed down through our genes.
Technology changes. Human nature remains the same.

Amen.

Job 28:20
“From where, then, does wisdom come?
And where is the place of understanding?“

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?

Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.

Well, with respect to the OP’s specific question, such curiosity has neither solved the question nor benefited mankind - despite mankind’s striving throughout history.

Certainly, scientific investigation is worthy for providing new tools, delaying death (and / or easing the process of death) and other transitory improvements. But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

Thus, some value certain forms of curiosity, while others see such as ‘vanity of vanities’.

I'm not sure what all that means, but certainly curiosity is a good thing, regardless of outcome, right? At least in both scientific endeavors, as well as philosophical questions such as 'where do we come from'. ..

#1. He is not number one for nothing.

1. The more science learns the more they fail to be able to explain without a creator being part of the equation.

#1

Silent

2. I’m open to “directed evolution” or intelligent design but know of no evidence or proof.

Intelligent design requires a superior force Or designer of some kind. If this was the case, and a superior force is behind our existence, why should we expect that force to acknowledge or otherwise be involved with or care about the human race?

5

#1 God created us.

I won't say évolution doesn't exist at some level but the idea of man coming from pond scum is crazy.