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Hop head
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
#2, while being open to the possibility/likelihood of #1 as a precursor/complement to #2.

As in, the universe may very well be created, designed, and ran by a Creator, but with it also having taking millions of years of evolution, guided by both intelligent design and direct intervention, to get to where we are today.

The ideas aren't mutually exclusive.


deist?



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 8627 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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#1. I have no doubt that God created us.
 
Posts: 1103 | Registered: October 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’ve looked into this with an open mind, read quite a bit, and talked to people who have studied it as their life’s work (evolutionary biologists, etc). Here’s what I’ve figured out:

1. We are not aware of a scientifically sound bottom up explanation. Darwinian evolution may explain variations in species over time but it cannot explain the emergence of species, let alone life. I’m not knocking Darwin, he produced a beautiful theory based on what he knew at the time, but now that we understand some things - like DNA and the function of cells, his theory doesn’t work. To be clear, we still don’t understand everything about DNA (it turns out non coding regions actually matter) or cells (they are far more complicated than we can comprehend), which is part of the problem. Could there be such an explanation? Sure, but we don’t know what it is. Energy is certainly an interesting possibility but we don’t know what it is either.

2. The top down explanations, which we could call intelligent design, are as scientifically valid as any other theory. From a scientific perspective they are just that - theories. If you work from the top down you have to necessarily postulate an uncaused first cause. But that’s nothing new-Aristotle called it the unmoved mover long ago.

Where does that leave us? Scientifically, with viable but unproved theories on both sides. Philosophically, with a very significant unanswered question. In both cases, any firm belief is ultimately grounded in faith and unprovable assumptions.

I believe in the top down explanation because it has the best evidence supporting it.
 
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chillin out
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#1




I practice Shinrin-yoku
It's better to wear out than rust out
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God


...You, higher mammal. Can you read?
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If not #1, then who cares?
 
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The cake is a lie!
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5,2,7. In that order.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?


Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.


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Plowing straight ahead come what may
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#1...God...no doubt for me.


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
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Posts: 10187 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good question.

People want to drive a wedge between creation and evolution, who says God didn't create life on earth and also trigger the evolutionary process by which life grows and changes over time.

Currently, I think God started the ball rolling when He set the tiniest molecule of life that he created into motion on this void. All the living things we see now are a result or God's single action in that moment. God knew that his creation would evolve into what it is now and God knows what it will be in the future.
 
Posts: 11593 | Location: Colorful Colorado | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by zipriderson:
quote:
Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?


Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.


Well, with respect to the OP’s specific question, such curiosity has neither solved the question nor benefited mankind - despite mankind’s striving throughout history.

Certainly, scientific investigation is worthy for providing new tools, delaying death (and / or easing the process of death) and other transitory improvements. But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

Thus, some value certain forms of curiosity, while others see such as ‘vanity of vanities’.
 
Posts: 418 | Registered: June 24, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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quote:
But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

That's because wisdom is not the same as knowledge. Wisdom must be earned through individual experience. It isn't passed down through our genes.
Technology changes. Human nature remains the same.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 18845 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
quote:
But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

That's because wisdom is not the same as knowledge. Wisdom must be earned through individual experience. It isn't passed down through our genes.
Technology changes. Human nature remains the same.


Amen.

Job 28:20
“From where, then, does wisdom come?
And where is the place of understanding?“
 
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I can't think of
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Picture of zipriderson
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quote:
Originally posted by FHHM213:
quote:
Originally posted by zipriderson:
quote:
Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?


Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.


Well, with respect to the OP’s specific question, such curiosity has neither solved the question nor benefited mankind - despite mankind’s striving throughout history.

Certainly, scientific investigation is worthy for providing new tools, delaying death (and / or easing the process of death) and other transitory improvements. But man has made no real progress in true wisdom.

Thus, some value certain forms of curiosity, while others see such as ‘vanity of vanities’.


I'm not sure what all that means, but certainly curiosity is a good thing, regardless of outcome, right? At least in both scientific endeavors, as well as philosophical questions such as 'where do we come from'. ..


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#1. He is not number one for nothing.
 
Posts: 1707 | Location: Northern Virginia/Buggs Island, Boydton Va. | Registered: July 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm Fine
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1. The more science learns the more they fail to be able to explain without a creator being part of the equation.


------------------
SBrooks
 
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#1

Silent
 
Posts: 728 | Registered: February 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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2. I’m open to “directed evolution” or intelligent design but know of no evidence or proof.

Intelligent design requires a superior force Or designer of some kind. If this was the case, and a superior force is behind our existence, why should we expect that force to acknowledge or otherwise be involved with or care about the human race?
 
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5
 
Posts: 851 | Location: Virginia | Registered: August 03, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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#1 God created us.

I won't say évolution doesn't exist at some level but the idea of man coming from pond scum is crazy.
 
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