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My birthday dinner discussion turned to politics :( Login/Join 
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Picture of hjs157
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quote:
Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:....
I reminded him of the whole checks and balances thing and that it was impossible, no matter who the president was for our country to devolve into that....


Not that I agree with Granddad here completely, but understand, what he says aint impossible.

What the "average" American does not realize is how weak our Bill of Rights have become. All of them. Limits on the 1st, the 4th is been gutted, 5th is holding on, 6th is constantly under attack, 8th is a joke, 9th does not exist any more nor does the 10th. As everyone had fought hard for the 2nd, all the others were attacked and weakened.

The Government has the power, currently to name an American citizen an "enemy combatant", strip you of all your civil rights and send you off to a military holding facility, or worse, should you be out of the country, target you with a drone. The Military Commissions Act of 2009 affords you certain rights, but you are still being tried by a Military tribunal, not the civil courts. It's a joke. The Supreme Court actually held that certain elements of our Bill of Rights is not "absolute".

Our Government has, on multiple occasions, has suspended Habeas Corpus over the years.

So, dont get mad at Granddad, he gets it, nothing is "impossible".


While all of this may be true, I sleep much more comfortably with a conservative president in the White House. If I could debunk any one of the Left's lies, it would be that Hitler was on the Right.
 
Posts: 3488 | Location: Western PA | Registered: July 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of Beancooker
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Jesse, Happy Birthday. Sorry to hear your dinner didn’t turn out as planned.

BTW, you won a Karma. I don’t think you have seen this yet...

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/1300079164



quote:
Originally posted by parabellum: You must have your pants custom tailored to fit your massive balls.
The “lol” thread
 
Posts: 4023 | Location: Staring down at you with disdain, from the spooky mountaintop castle.  | Registered: November 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Partial dichotomy
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Happy Birthday, Jesse!




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Posts: 38599 | Location: SC Lowcountry/Cape Cod | Registered: November 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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Happy birthday

This just proves really smart people are not immune from ignorance. It’s the same kind of mentality of voting for a party because you’ve always done it that way.

Were I in your situation, I’d personally just tell my grandfather (if he were still among the living) that we must agree to disagree. Respect his opinion and tell him to do the same.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 15501 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Legalize the Constitution
Picture of TMats
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:....
I reminded him of the whole checks and balances thing and that it was impossible, no matter who the president was for our country to devolve into that....


Not that I agree with Granddad here completely, but understand, what he says aint impossible.

What the "average" American does not realize is how weak our Bill of Rights have become. All of them. Limits on the 1st, the 4th is been gutted, 5th is holding on, 6th is constantly under attack, 8th is a joke, 9th does not exist any more nor does the 10th. As everyone had fought hard for the 2nd, all the others were attacked and weakened.

The Government has the power, currently to name an American citizen an "enemy combatant", strip you of all your civil rights and send you off to a military holding facility, or worse, should you be out of the country, target you with a drone. The Military Commissions Act of 2009 affords you certain rights, but you are still being tried by a Military tribunal, not the civil courts. It's a joke. The Supreme Court actually held that certain elements of our Bill of Rights is not "absolute".

Our Government has, on multiple occasions, has suspended Habeas Corpus over the years.

So, dont get mad at Granddad, he gets it, nothing is "impossible".

That's going to make the pro-abortion crowd nervous. The SCOTUS majority decision by the Blackmun Court cited the 9th and 14th Amendments in their decision that discovered a Constitutional right to abort a baby.

Happy birthday, hope your grandfather spends the rest of his days in contentment.


_______________________________________________________
despite them
 
Posts: 13166 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
Happy birthday

This just proves really smart people are not immune from ignorance. It’s the same kind of mentality of voting for a party because you’ve always done it that way.

Were I in your situation, I’d personally just tell my grandfather (if he were still among the living) that we must agree to disagree. Respect his opinion and tell him to do the same.


Thank you and every one that wished me happy birthday. It was actually two weeks ago. My family never does anything on time.

Yep I should have just changed the subject, which is what I always do when politics comes up. The Hitler comp, pissed me off, only reason I continued discussion. Say you hate his policies, say you hate the person, both are valid avenues for disagreement, but for a Holocaust survivor to compare DJT to him seems ludicrous. In fact his wife asked me why I never talk about politics, I said it dangerous to my income to do so, and there aren't many people in my area I can have an actual, real conversation about with.

Lesson learned. I honestly don't know what party he even votes for, just that he volunteers every election to run polling stations.

Only other conversation we've had was regarding illegal immigration, which he asked if I realized he was a refugee. I replied yes I knew that, but he did it legally. Got sponsored; gave up everything in his home country; got papers in order; spent weeks in quarantine at Ellis; changed his name to more American name; served in the Air Force, then served his country in private areospace rolls; has no allegiance to Germany; learned English; etc. We ended the conversation there.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 20757 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
186,000 miles per second.
It's the law.




posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
Went out last night for delicious birthday dinner. Food was excellent, service good, and my drink was made pretty darn strong. Finished off with desert and port for the table on the house.

As we were having coffee and waiting for desert, somehow I screwed it all up. Asked my grandpa (Holocaust survivor) about what he thought about the rise of anti-Semitism in France/Europe. He said yep tons of it, and pivioted to our president and how he's possibly the next Hitler.

Shocked he'd say such a thing, I asked him why he thought that. He went on to talk about Kristallnacht and our family that didn't make it out. Asked what that had to do with our president. Said it started with the same rhetoric going on now from our president and nationalist themes.

I reminded him of the whole checks and balances thing and that it was impossible, no matter who the president was for our country to devolve into that. Went on to mention Tree of Life and Charlottesville. I reminded him that he was talking about two sick individuals not our president. He somehow thinks PDJT is encouraging people to do hateful things by his rhetoric and actions. I asked him if his actions included having a Jewish daughter, SIL, and grandchildren and suggested he was a really shitty anti-Semite between his relationship with Bibi, moving Embassy, family, and pro-Israel policies. He responded with something from CNN.

My grandfather was a literal rocket scientist and areo space engineer, and he's fooled by WaPo and NYT.

We went on to taxes and he said tax cut was BS and that he and people he knew got no benefit from it. I said grandpa, the people you are talking about are rich and their income comes from different sources than mine. Tax cuts plus employer bonuses and fully funding my HSA as a result of cuts meant a 10% raise to me in after tax dollars. I also told him how much that helped me and that I bought a new car as well as started new home improvements based on higher disposable income.

My quite literal genius grandfather has been duped it makes me sad. Frown


Jesse, you are blessed with a grandpa who survived the holocaust. He will not be around much longer. If I were you, I would record everything he says. Ask him a ton of questions. Make a recording. Don't worry about his view of current politics. Ask him questions about when he was young. God bless him!
 
Posts: 3248 | Registered: August 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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quote:
Jesse, you are blessed with a grandpa who survived the holocaust. He will not be around much longer.


Thanks for the reminder. I actually had asked him to tell us everything and do an interview. He ended up doing with some cousins I don't know that has a production company. I need get a copy of that. It's not exactly what I wanted, because I wanted to ask the questions and ask him to fill in details I don't know, but having someone I don't know do it, they may ask questions I wouldn't have thought to ask.

At my request for Passover he told us the history of our family in Germany, the trip here, and the early years in America (NYC). I'll tell you what, people who complain about being misgendered have no clue what real racism/non-inclusion looks like.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 20757 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
186,000 miles per second.
It's the law.




posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
quote:
Jesse, you are blessed with a grandpa who survived the holocaust. He will not be around much longer.


Thanks for the reminder. I actually had asked him to tell us everything and do an interview. He ended up doing with some cousins I don't know that has a production company. I need get a copy of that. It's not exactly what I wanted, because I wanted to ask the questions and ask him to fill in details I don't know, but having someone I don't know do it, they may ask questions I wouldn't have thought to ask.

At my request for Passover he told us the history of our family in Germany, the trip here, and the early years in America (NYC). I'll tell you what, people who complain about being misgendered have no clue what real racism/non-inclusion looks like.


Yep. Record every thing he says. Ask lots of questions. He does not have much time left. You will be so glad you did. God Bless Him.

I am in a similar situation. There is not much time left with that generation. When they are gone, its over. I suggest not asking about modern politics. Ask about when he was young. Ask about his personal history. Great Respect for your Grandpa.
 
Posts: 3248 | Registered: August 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bad dog!
Picture of justjoe
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I agree fully with those who say let it go, brush it aside, and honor and love your grandfather. Mark Twain said "A cat that has sat on a hot stove lid will never sit on a hot stove lid again. And he won't sit on a cold one either." In India I heard this: "Once you've been bitten by a cobra, everything in the grass looks like a cobra."

Hitler's message might well have been "Make Germany great again." And no doubt the patriotism, the flags, the big crowds-- it all looks like a cobra to him.

He is probably surprised that a bright guy like yourself can't see it.

And-- Happy Birthday! Smile


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Posts: 11106 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: June 05, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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The different political forces that he was exposed to as a young, developing mind don't exist anymore, and surely not over here. Yes, parallels can be drawn, but the powers that were, and vied to be during his youth, have all largely been replaced. What he compares the world around him to, some 75 years later, is still largely going to center on his understandings of the world formed during those horrible times.

I also think it may be best to simply avoid all talk of politics with him. And as for your questions being asked him in an interview, why not post an ad for college student doing journalism, production or film class to do the interview? I'm sure you'd have a number of decent applicants seeing it as a great opportunity.


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Carthago delenda est
 
Posts: 17059 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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I talked to him a couple of days ago to thank him for dinner and inquire about the video my cousin did 14 months ago. Editing still not complete. I told him to call her and find out what is up or else I'd make him do it again all over. He said he'd call right away, not too keen on three hours in front of camera with bright lights in his eyes.

As for the politics talk, not going to happen. I'll change subject.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 20757 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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