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So I've been a member of the Virginia Citizens Defense League for a number of years now and have always thought that they've done good things for the Commonwealth. However, the other day I saw the 10 minute preview clip for Borat's new Showtime series where he completely owned Philip Van Cleave, VCDL's president. Now I've read Van Cleave's side of the story and do believe that Borat's producers cut and pasted his remarks during the interview part to make him and all of us look bad but I can't get over how Van Cleave would've ever thought it was a great idea to make a video with stuffed animals and firearms. Seriously makes him and all of us look stupid, along with the politicians that bought into this as well. Quite mind boggling really. Makes me reconsider my membership with VCDL. I'm 100% for gun rights if they're in the right hands but I can't comprehend how these guys got duped into making fun time videos or addressing the voters on camera while saying that 4 year olds with guns can defend a school shooting. In these times I feel it seriously makes us all look like the gun nuts that they enjoy calling us.

Wondering what any of your thoughts are....
 
Posts: 436 | Location: Virginia | Registered: October 10, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Cohen got busted in a gun shop very recently when the owner recognized him in his crappy disguise and crappy accent. He's trouble, nothing but, trying to make a name for himself by making others gun shop dude told him to get the fuck out and take his camera crew with him. I believe this is the correct tactic.

Link

https://www.breitbart.com/cali...-by-gun-store-owner/
 
Posts: 17139 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Did you come from behind
that rock, or from under it?

Picture of Audioholic
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The VCDL also got screwed over by Katie Couric on her “Under The Gun” partisan documentary. You would think they would be careful who they get on TV with. Frown




"Every time you think you weaken the nation" Moe Howard
 
Posts: 2048 | Location: Out standing in my field. | Registered: February 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Link to the vcdl alert archive:

https://www.listbox.com/member...8-ABEB-D10BF61E4F35/

Not really interested Borat garbage, my support for VCDL is not diminished.
 
Posts: 254 | Location: Stafford, VA | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:


I'm aware of this, I read it then and I've read his recent comments on how he was tricked and how they edited his remarks during the interview, etc. But a video with stuffed animals with guns in them?? Really? Saying that 4 year olds can be trained to fend off a bad guy?? Not good....
 
Posts: 436 | Location: Virginia | Registered: October 10, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
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If people didn't, to some extent, hand him the rope to hang themselves with, Baron Cohen would be a lot less successful.
 
Posts: 27927 | Location: Johnson City, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Check the story on the Riverside gun shop calling him out. “Hey your Borat, GTFO”
 
Posts: 4757 | Location: Florida Panhandle  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Internet Guru
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People know this fool and many are familiar with his tactics. I don't really think it hurts us very much...it's more embarrassing and something for leftist to chuckle over.
 
Posts: 1967 | Registered: April 06, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
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Here's the video on Sacha Cohen being owned and outed by the funstore owner.




ACCU-STRUT FOR MINI-14
"First, Eyes."
 
Posts: 16319 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
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Philip and VCDL have been instrumental in expanding gun rights in Virginia.

From earlier this year:
quote:
February 20, 2018

Last weekend, while doing what seemed to be a regular interview, I discovered that a movie is being made with the intent to discredit gun-rights leaders across the country.

No, this is not a joke, it is real and we need to get the word out to other gun-rights organizations, gun-rights leaders, and prominent firearms trainers across the country and we need to do this FAST.

Back in 2014, alleged Hollywood sexual predator Harvey Weinstein said he was going to make a movie “that would make the NRA wish they weren’t alive.” (All gun organizations are the NRA in his mind.) And he was dead serious. Michael Moore has been attempting to discredit gun owners and leaders for years by tricking people and using creative editing techniques to make them look foolish or idiotic.

Who’s behind this effort isn’t clear, but they are EXTREMELY WELL FUNDED PROFESSIONALS. For example, to reel me in and to try to make me feel beholden to them, they laid out the red carpet, by providing luxury accommodations, limousine service, and providing a generous monetary allowance to cover meals and other expenses for two days.

They use psychological manipulation, as well as lies and tricks to put their victim into comedic situations that subject them to public shame, embarrassment, and ridicule. I believe the intent is to destroy reputations and even lives.

I did some detective work in the days immediately following the “interview,” and I managed to find out they had targeted at least one nationally known firearms trainer and I know there are more. They appear to be setting up near gun shows. I also found out they covered their tracks carefully to avoid revealing their true identity.

It started when VCDL received an email last week from a company called “First Freedom Television” to do an interview with an “Israeli security expert” on the “shared security interests of like-minded countries, such as the U.S. and Israel.” It went on, “Unlike the misguided position of American liberals, who aim to eradicate guns altogether, Israel has proven that universal gun training and widespread gun ownership actually leads to a safer society.”

I do interviews all the time, and this one didn’t seem to be all that much out of the ordinary.

On Sunday, February 11, 2018, I did the interview in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. About 5 minutes into the interview, my radar turned on big time when the interviewer was making claims about Israeli schools training selected children to use firearms from age 17 down to age 4 (!) as a last ditch effort in stopping a terrorist attack on a school if the teachers and security staff had been killed. The children would have codes to unlock secured firearms in such a case.

When I balked at 4-year-olds being able to do that, he showed me an alleged newscast video on his iPad. The text was in Hebrew, but with an English-speaking narration, talking about how a 4-year-old boy had indeed stopped a terrorist attack at his school. The newscast said that he killed two terrorists using his dad’s gun, which he had brought to school in his backpack to show a friend, in violation of school rules. Israeli Premier Netanyahu was touting him as a hero in the video.

While I’ve never been to Israel, I do know they have some serious terrorism concerns, especially at schools and other public gatherings. The way they handle some of their security can be very different from what we have in the U.S. But that news story just didn’t look right, and 4-year-olds can hold a gun and fire it with supervision, but not take on terrorists, and especially manage to shoot and kill two of them.

Because of this and various other odd things I noticed during the interview, I was now convinced that something wasn’t right. This wasn’t real and probably some sort of a set up.

I could only think of Hollywood’s threat. At a minimum, it could be a comedy which would play only in Israel, but it could be a more damaging attempt to make a “mocumentary,” by someone like Michael Moore, or, even worse, a Sacha Baron Cohen-esq “Borat”-type of shock comedy meant to be devastatingly embarrassing and humiliating to the victim in the crosshairs.

As the 15-minute interview terminated, the interviewer asked me if I, as an English-speaking firearms trainer, would help him make a “gun safety” training video for children of various ages. This had to be the “kicker,” I thought.

For better or for worse, I decided that I would play along with the scheme so I could find out who was behind this and where this was going. I figured if I was right about this being a set up, I could blow the whistle and get a warning out to the gun-rights community across the country to protect as many people as possible and maybe derail this attack. If it turned out to be nothing, then no harm, no foul.

We recorded for almost 3 hours using Airsoft guns as props. They even had a teleprompter!

I was right – it was a set up - and it was much worse than I could have imagined. If you’ve seen the 70’s movie, “The Sting,” it was much like that. It was a well-orchestrated, well-choreographed, psychological manipulation, with a production cast of at least 10 people, to slowly lead a person down the primrose path.

We went step-by-step with a ready, and seemingly logical, answer every time I balked at some crazy part of the training. They seemed to have thought of every thing that a person might question. All I can say is that these people were extremely good at deception and manipulation. And no matter how stupid the things the interviewer and I were doing (we were side-by-side the whole time), no one else cracked a smile or laughed once, and I was watching. The professional actors were keeping up the appearance that this was a serious project.

The end goal was to get the victim to make a “training film” teaching 3 and 4-year-olds how to shoot guns hidden in toy animals at “bad” people, to sing little songs and make gun noises during the training to make it “fun for children,” and even teach little kids how to shoot a rocket-propelled-grenade or a squad automatic weapon at an approaching suicide bomber vehicle!

It all sounds unbelievable. But everything was elaborately and expensively staged; every contingency planned for, with explanations that make unbelievable things seem plausible (fake documents and videos about how Israel handles security in their schools, for example). The interview moved along at a pace, designed not to give the “mark” time to reflect on where things are going. The craziness factor very gradually got more extreme, like cooking a frog by slowly heating up the water so he doesn’t realize what’s happening until it’s too late. It’s a con game, a sting, plain and simple.

I don’t know if they have other scenarios or they will use other company names to continue concealing their identity, but anyone doing an interview dealing with gun rights where they sense something odd should terminate that interview. Or, better, bring a recorder and tell the other party you are going to make your own recording of the interview. If they say “no,” then walk out. I am going to make that my own policy going forward to protect against any future fake interviews. BTW, they had me leave my cellphone in an office “because it might interfere with the recording devices,” but I think it was so I couldn’t take any photos of them or make any video or audio recordings on that phone.

In the end we played each other and I confirmed what I feared this was all about. Sadly for me, I’m sure I’m going to be in whatever crazy film finally comes out, looking really stupid and, just as sadly, I’ll probably be in good company. A few of us will no doubt get hammered, but if we can get the word out IMMEDIATELY, we might be able to save the reputations of many other good people.

Finally, looking at the possibilities and what I saw while making the “training film,” I’m betting this is going to end up being a “Borat”-style film and it’s going to be vicious on the victims.

Please share this alert far and wide.

Philip Van Cleave
President
Virginia Citizens Defense League




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17460 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Philip Van Cleave

Dude seems to be a complete amateur when it comes to Public Relations and such.

I think VCDL is great but maybe time they look for new leadership.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Prefontaine
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I watched 10-15 minutes of his new show Sunday and turned it off. He’s a one hit wonder and it’s no longer funny. His career is over. If it was funny I’d say it was but it was terrible. He did an interview with Bernie the Socialist and it was even shit.



What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone
 
Posts: 12622 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Philip Van Cleave

Dude seems to be a complete amateur when it comes to Public Relations and such.

I think VCDL is great but maybe time they look for new leadership.


As I understand it, Mr. Van Cleave is an unpaid volunteer. I have lived in VA. about 14 years and have been a member of the VCDL the whole time. I think Mr. Van Cleve does a tremendous job. I go to the VCDL Lobby Day and have seen him in numerous debates and public appearances. I try to put myself in his place and cannot picture me doing anywhere near as good of a job. We all make mistakes. I will continue to support VCDL and Mr. Van Cleave.
 
Posts: 618 | Location: northern VA. | Registered: August 18, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ermagherd,
10 Mirrimerter!
Picture of ElKabong
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Honda wouldn’t have fallen for that shit....
Haven’t seen him on here, he stays busy with the WVCDL I’m guessing


I quit school in elementary because of recess.......too many games
--Riff Raff--
 
Posts: 2914 | Location: WV | Registered: September 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
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It's easy to get sucked into these incrementalist cons. Also he who edits rules the narrative.

If they are recording, you should be recording.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17460 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Conservative Behind
Enemy Lines
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenris:
It's easy to get sucked into these incrementalist cons. Also he who edits rules the narrative.

If they are recording, you should be recording.


And, they were recording when they were interviewed by Couric.



I found what you said riveting.
 
Posts: 10703 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: June 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
Picture of Fenris
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by synthplayer:
quote:
Originally posted by Fenris:
It's easy to get sucked into these incrementalist cons. Also he who edits rules the narrative.

If they are recording, you should be recording.

And, they were recording when they were interviewed by Couric.

Yes. But he apparently did not apply lesson universally. Recording interactions with media should be as automatic as carry a gun. It's for your own protection.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17460 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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He suspected it was a trick 5 minutes in but stayed for several hours feeding the guy material?

And how does he think that they played each other? Only one of them got played and it’s even worse that he knew it. This show will be seen by millions. The VCDL press release explaining how it was manipulated will be seen by people on the VCDL mailing list. Paid or not he’s a spokesman for gun owners and allowed himself to look like a fool.

The VCDL may have done some great things in VA but I sure wish they’d stop doing interviews on camera.




“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 15251 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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Cohen is an unfunny piece of shit. The only reason Borat did so well was because of the shock value of the outrageous stunts he pulled. His cut and paste antics are reminiscent of the Daily Show about the time it took a left turn. I refuse to even dignify his garbage with so much as a second thought.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 15560 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
Cohen is an unfunny piece of shit. The only reason Borat did so well was because of the shock value of the outrageous stunts he pulled. His cut and paste antics are reminiscent of the Daily Show about the time it took a left turn. I refuse to even dignify his garbage with so much as a second thought.


I agree.

But you and I aren’t the target audience for this propaganda. Neither are the people who already hate gun owners. The target is middle of the road people who won’t read VCDL press releases and who won’t take the time to see if the interview was manipulated in any way. The idea was to make spokespeople for the gun industry and gun rights to look like crazy extremists to people who don’t have much of an opinion either way. They succeeded.




“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 15251 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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