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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
http://highexistence.com/topic...ges-of-civilization/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through a nine stage sequence: 1 – From bondage to spiritual faith; 2 – from spiritual faith to great courage; 3 – from courage to liberty; 4 – from liberty to abundance; 5 – from abundance to selfishness; 6 – from selfishness to complacency; 7 – from complacence to apathy; 8 – from apathy to dependence; 9 – from dependency back again into bondage. In our present Plutocracy we have just made the transition from complacency to national apathy ~ which will surely be followed by dependence on the state and eventually bondage by the state. As Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General, has said ~ ”We’re not a democracy. It’s a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that. In reality, we’re a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy.” Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | ||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
I have a problem with your quote from Ramsey Clark.... Our Founding Fathers never intended us to be a Democracy. We were intended to be a Republic. As we have moved toward a democracy, we begin to see that no one's property is safe from the desires of the 'majority faction'. Federalist No. 10 is an essay written by James Madison as the tenth of The Federalist Papers, a series of essays initiated by Alexander Hamilton arguing for the ratification of the United States Constitution. Published on November 29, 1787 under the pseudonym "Publius", Federalist No. 10 is among the most highly regarded of all American political writings. No. 10 addresses the question of how to guard against "factions", or groups of citizens, with interests contrary to the rights of others or the interests of the whole community. Madison saw factions as inevitable due to the nature of man - that is, as long as men hold differing opinions, have differing amounts of wealth, and own differing amount of property, they will continue to form alliances with people who are most similar to them, and they will sometimes work against the public interest, and infringe upon the rights of others. Thus, he questions how to guard against those dangers. " [In] a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions." "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Member |
I'd say we're well into Phase 8. If liberals continue to win offices, then likely 9 we (the people) just don't realize it because the illusion of freedom and choice still exists. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
Between 7 and 8, no doubt. Q | |||
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thin skin can't win |
You guys are so pessimistic.  It's bad enough I'd put us in 6, you assessments make me want to sell everything and run naked through the streets for the last week or three..... You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02 | |||
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| Oriental Redneck |
Well, half of the country is already at the "dependence" stage. As stated by konata88, it only takes the rats to win the next Congress and/or the Presidency, and we're done. Q | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
From the list apathy to dependence is pretty descriptive of where we are. Remember, the majority of the people in this country are neither as informed nor as independent as the people here on SIGforum. People want to be provided for, and they want the government to do the providing. You can't protect the minority who own property from the majority 'faction' who want to take it once you leave the republic (rule of law) behind and slide towards democracy (mob rule). "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Fool for the City |
I'll go along with number 8 - far too many people dependent on the government. _____________________________ "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington. | |||
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| Official forum SIG Pro enthusiast  |
Stage 4 or 5. The liberty and abundance we enjoy currently is unparalleled in human history. This is an absolutely wonderful time to be alive. Sure selfishness, complacency, apathay and dependence all exist in our society but I don't think they define our civilization. Not yet. When I talk to people from other countries they LOVE our level of freedom and abundance, it is what makes this the best nation on this planet. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance | |||
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| No double standards |
From various reports (ie, I haven't done a deep analysis), half of the people in the US live on gov't spending, either for their own paycheck or somewhere upstream of their own paycheck. (ie, if gov't spending took a real hit, half of the people's paychecks would take a hit). And, half of the people in the US would not be able to pay for basic food and housing next month if the didn't get their paycheck (or welfare check) this month. (ie, they have no savings or backup). Then think of the gov't debt (a form of dependency), particularly unfunded liabilities, primarily retirements promised to pay out that exceed the money they will have to make those payments. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| Member |
I agree. Not saying the trajectory of debt and dependence isn't a bad thing, but we're still dang lucky. We get worked up about which bathrooms people are using while most of the world pisses in the street. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
I agree with much of this, except I think we're leaning more towards Stage 6. Apathy, dependence are traits in our society, but not yet the overriding definition of our country/empire. Yet. Thing is that Stages 7-9 can take place in the span of just a couple of decades. And we're not a Plutocracy (even though the end result is that politicians end up with some wealth). IMO, we are more of an Oligarchy, rule by an elitist group. "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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delicately calloused |
We are at 9 in bondage to the feds. When the feds collapse under their own corruption and bad policy, we'll be vulnerable beyond imagination to waiting vultures. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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| Member |
This reminds me that I haven't read these in well over 50 years, and it's about time I do so again. Amazon has several offerings in their Books section, all incredibly cheap. Anybody know of a particularly good edition I could get? By "good" I mean, accurate and complete, not edited by some Revisionist. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/docu...e-federalist-papers/ I have a well used, marked and highlighted paper copy but they are widely available online.  "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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A Grateful American |
Where is the USA in the 9 stages of civiliztion? Someone cranked it up to 11... "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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| Oriental Redneck |
The comet stage? Q | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
I recall from some time ago that some 40% of the population is receiving financial support, in one form or another, from gubbermint. I figure we, as a nation, are in stage 8, headed rapidly for stage 9. It is fine to view this situation from a strictly personal point, but I think one has to look at it at a slightly level. What is the majority of our population doing, and what do they believe? Look at the incredible violence in our streets and neighborhoods!! Unfortunately, it seems the concept of getting what you want is through violence. BLM for example, not to mention a number of other such groups. And not to forget that the Soros gang is driving a lot of what is happening in this country. I submit it gubbermint quit paying people not to work, for years and years, things might be a little better. I distinctly remember an interview from several years ago. Some reporter in NYC was interviewing a welfare recipient. Said recipient had no job, wanted no job. Reporter asked why the guy didn't join the military. Response: "Why the hell would I do that? I am here in my own apartment, watching my own TV, sitting on my own furniture and drinking all the beer I want!" A case study why unlimited gubbermint "rescue" should not be happening. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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| Member |
Thanks, chellim1, but I was hoping for a book, not on-line. Your suggestion is a great place to start, though, so thanks again!  In terms of your paper copy, I'm curious if there are some that are more accurate and complete than others. Do you have any suggestions in that vein? -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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| Member |
Elk, don't forget that Social Security recipients are lumped into this inflated number, along with the welfare dependents. It's wrong to include this benefit, earned over a lifetime of employment, with the trash. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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