Your results will vary, I spent the last three years at a job I disliked. But what differs in my case is that I was approaching retirement age and while the money was good the environment was not so good. I did not feel in my case that it would be fair to a potential employer to go in and say "three years and I'm out".

Idealism is great if you can afford it. I know it sounds bad and that I'm a sellout but money makes the world go around.

My suggestion is that your manager set a definite time frame for the business to turn around and you hire a manager fully disclosing this. At that point it's keep it or cut it loose. No if's ands or buts.

ANd for you, seek outside employment. Get some positive cash flow and cut that C/C debt.

Get legal agreements for all parties involved. While I'm not an attorney to eliminate all "critical third person" views of the agreements have them drawn up by an outside attorney, improprieties not needed or wanted here.

Just my thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by cmr076:

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
Maybe I missed it...what trajectory is the business currently on? I understand you're not taking a regular paycheck, but is the business steadily improving? When do you expect it to be profitable to the point you can take a regular check, or is that simply not in sight?

it is improving.. the new staff are amazing, I wish I'd found them a year ago. To answer your question, it's hard to say. This SHOULD be our slow part of the year, but we have a shop full of cars. I'm really not sure when I would be able to pay myself regularly again, we were so far under water that just getting caught up will take time.

Overall it sounds like maybe reason for hope.

Perhaps you can discuss with your partner and/or wife setting some markers for the business to achieve by certain dates such as debt reduced to X, profit margin = Y, debt eliminated, etc...? If the business isn't hitting/nearly hitting those markers on time, then bailing may be easier. (Note: I'm not a greatly experienced businessman, so you and others might have better ideas about the exact markers you should set.)

Also, if you're partner is optimistic about the business, maybe discuss with him the domestic problem it's causing for you to not bring home a paycheck hardly ever.

Ok no agreements. Not good.
What percentage do you own? Are you seeing the books? Are they giving you a schedule K1 to file on your personal taxes?
If you don’t have some ownership, don’t see the books, and aren’t getting paid you are IMO getting shafted in this arrangement.

Also who is paying company taxes? If money is tight are the federal payroll taxes being paid on time? If you have ownership you bear part of the liability if things aren’t getting paid.

Never look back, that's my philosophy. You left a job because you couldn't stand it anymore. Thinking that a change of management or a shift in employees will somehow cleanse a poisoned well is like putting the old, proverbial "kick me" sign on your back.

I have been with my current employers over six years. During that time, I have seen two people leave and come back. The first is gone again, after having been back only about six months, and the second, who just came back two months ago, is already giving me signs that she's ready to bolt again.

At my age (66), I'm not looking to move, but I too, see the signals that this may not be the place from which I retire. I got a call from a recruiter I know today -- kind of out of the blue -- and I'm now updating my resume...

This is a bit tougher to answer than most job related questions I see posted. If you can get to some written legal agreement on getting a set portion of back pay on a set schedule I might tough it out, but short of that would have to cut my losses. My usual philosophy has always been if you are not happy what you are doing and where you are doing it ( which would have to include good reliable compensation) cut and run do not look back. This is easy for me to say in my situation ( medical professional that gets multiple lucrative offers literally every day) but your situation is quite different. Tough call

Walk away and get your degree.

No doubt you are getting some good advice here. I have not read through most of it.

I like to try to boil things down to the cold hard facts and go from there.

As I recall you are just newly married, right?

So priorities need to be in order. God, family and everything else after that. Or however you define it.

But family above work for sure. So I would listen to my wife and heed the vibes and communication she is providing first and foremost.

From your explanation of the situation I would conclude any and all relationships with this situation. Get out and be done with it and them.

Put a solid employment plan together that will get you a paycheck and it will be elbows and assholes for the next quarter century. It may not be a dream job. But they almost never are.

Your wife wants a family so that is the priority. Having one, raising one and providing for one. Plain and simple.

Quit spinning your wheels and get some traction. Dump the credit cards too.

Sorry to sound harsh, but that is how I see the realites.

Focus on the blessings.

Best of luck, you will do great.

quote:

Originally posted by dusty3030:
Ok no agreements. Not good.
What percentage do you own? Are you seeing the books? Are they giving you a schedule K1 to file on your personal taxes?
If you don’t have some ownership, don’t see the books, and aren’t getting paid you are IMO getting shafted in this arrangement.

Also who is paying company taxes? If money is tight are the federal payroll taxes being paid on time? If you have ownership you bear part of the liability if things aren’t getting paid.

Don't have to be an owner to be on the hook for the Trust Fund Taxes! All you need be is a responsible party - i.e. signer on the checking account or in a position to pay or not pay the taxes to the Gov. Trust Fund penalty is 100 percent of the unpaid tax and attaches to the business and to you personally and is rarely able to be dodged.

Never, ever, ever avoid paying PR tax to the Gov and use it to finance the business as it WILL be the end of you and the business. It's a hole that most often can't be climbed out of.

quote:

I'm really not sure when I would be able to pay myself regularly again, we were so far under water that just getting caught up will take time.

Why is it your sole responsibility to not take any pay in order to pay off the bills of the previous management. It sounds as if your partner is an investment partner, not a working partner that is forgoing any income.

Your partner has funds but isn't willing to put forth the capital and invest to pay off debts.
These debts are keeping your from paying yourself, doesn't sound like a smart deal.

You need to have a talk with your partner and let him know you can't continue to work for free. Mortgages, food bills, credit cards etc, you're simply moving his/company debt to your personal debt.

Basically you're financing the company debt.

Stop that immediately.

Before you pull the plug, why isn’t the business making money?

Are you doing adequate volume? Pricing correctly? Overhead out of control?

Given your costs and pricing, can you make money in any reasonable scenario? What is the part that is out of bounds?

I have never forgotten a client I had years ago who came to me about the donut shop he was operating. He was doing a great business, but losing money.

Doing the analysis showed that with the lease and his other expenses, the more donuts he sold, the more he lost. The percentage lease over a certain volume was a killer, for his margins.

I have heard the Governor elect for NJ has said he is going to raise taxes. This will be bad for business, and will decrease disposable incomes. Consider how that might affect your ability to save your business going forward.

With regard to having children now or later, it is easier to raise kids in your 30's than your 40's. If your wife was the strength that led you to try when you left your old job, trust her and together with her figure out a plan to have kids now. In the grand scheme of things, investing in her, your marriage, and your children will be much better than trying to save a ship in the final stages of sinking.

So far as being young, think of what you would like to do in an ideal situation. If going back to school and completing your degree will help make that happen, do it.

Best of luck with all of this as you go forward.

You've got some sage advice from most who have input so far.

I'm going to take a different spin.

Let start with your partner. Your wife. She is your only real partner. Include her in the decisions as only you two know all of the details, but it sounds like a family is in your future. Why not now? You can't really plan for the "best time". (although practice is always good )

Time - it's the other most important thing. How you spend every hour is important. Think about how much you want to spend with family, work, etc..

Once you establish those priorities the work direction may be more apparent.

Best of luck.

Cheers~

After reading all the posts I have a comment or two.
Your wife is your partner, not the cash guy. Let her have an equal say in the decision to stay or go.
One thing bothers me, you say the business looks like it is improving but it may be a while before you can get a paycheck. The "money" partner had no problem getting rid of the two partners that were bad for the business. What is to stop him from letting you go once money starts to roll in? I hate to say it but cut your loss and move on.

If you left, the business would have to hire a manager and pay them a full salary right?

How about negotiate a fair solution and have an agreement drawn up. Something along the lines of your $200k back pay is now your investment in the company worth ___% ownership. Going forward, you'll take half salary and the other half will be invested into company for an increase in ownership percentage until the company is in the black. At that point, you are getting full salary and a percent of the profits based on your new ownership percentage.

Win-win. You get $ to pay the billz, partner doesn't have to either hire an unknown mgr at full salary....or close shop.

BTW, you really need to delegate to your assistant!!!! No, they won't do things as good as you (some they may do better ), however, the time it frees up is worth a fortune. Do not micro-manage either. Give them the task and the resources (training, guidance, tools, support, authority etc.) to get it done. Then follow up and supervise. Note: your way isn't the "right" way. The "right" way is one that accomplishes the goal without using excess resources. Who cares how they do it, so long as it is done effectively and you didn't have to. Focus your efforts where your talent will make the most impact. With the right people, you can delegate any weakness of yours to someone who has that as a strength and get some really solid synergy going...

I just had someone assisting me make a $7,700 error. I'm not upset, my guidance wasn't clear enough and I take full responsibility. It is far easier for me to take the time to fix this mistake (which happens a few times x year, and not let this same one happen again) then it would be for me to do everything I delegate to him by myself.

Anybody run projections for the next couple years? Try to get something objective that summarizes the financial future and current health of the company. Then meet with the money guy (and/or other partners) and discuss. In a professional manner mention that y'all need a plan to start the salary flowing. Not sure you'll ever see the salary you didn't take in prior years.

Key, base the discussions on something objective.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
If you left, the business would have to hire a manager and pay them a full salary right?

How about negotiate a fair solution and have an agreement drawn up. Something along the lines of your $200k back pay is now your investment in the company worth ___% ownership. Going forward, you'll take half salary and the other half will be invested into company for an increase in ownership percentage until the company is in the black. At that point, you are getting full salary and a percent of the profits based on your new ownership percentage.

Win-win. You get $ to pay the billz, partner doesn't have to either hire an unknown mgr at full salary....or close shop.

BTW, you really need to delegate to your assistant!!!! No, they won't do things as good as you (some they may do better ), however, the time it frees up is worth a fortune. Do not micro-manage either. Give them the task and the resources (training, guidance, tools, support, authority etc.) to get it done. Then follow up and supervise. Note: your way isn't the "right" way. The "right" way is one that accomplishes the goal without using excess resources. Who cares how they do it, so long as it is done effectively and you didn't have to. Focus your efforts where your talent will make the most impact. With the right people, you can delegate any weakness of yours to someone who has that as a strength and get some really solid synergy going...

I just had someone assisting me make a $7,700 error. I'm not upset, my guidance wasn't clear enough and I take full responsibility. It is far easier for me to take the time to fix this mistake (which happens a few times x year, and not let this same one happen again) then it would be for me to do everything I delegate to him by myself.

Suggest you consult with competent legal and tax accounting counsel. Exchanging services for an interest in the business will be a taxable transaction. You could wind up with income and no cash to pay the tax.

And, in general, consult a CPA that will not be afraid to tell you the good news as well as the bad news. They can be invaluable in assisting you to objectively see where the business is presently, what your plans are to turn it around and how realistic those plans are.

Are your partners taking a paycheck? My guess on how this type of stuff usually goes is yes. If you have the books available you need to go over them and see who's getting paid what vs how much is coming in.

Then you can have a discussion about your future with realistic expectations. If they can't/won't be met it's time to bail.

First, make sure the partner isn't stealing from you. If not, you have significant credit card debt and the wife is getting toward the end of her rope because you aren't making any money. It sounds like it has been time to move on for a while now.

As the old saying goes, shit or get off the pot.

quote:

We hired me an "assistant" but I'm terrible at delegating things to him because I don't trust he will do "it" as good as I will.

Then clearly you hired the wrong person.

Lots of good advice so far.

One thing I am unsure of: It sounds to me like you are not paying yourself because your money guy isn’t getting paid, and it sounds like this is your decision, not his directive. If I have misread this between the lines, then nevermind, but...

I think you should talk with the money guy, let him know where you are at and see if you can work out an agreement (and maybe even write it down all legal like, reviewed by lawyers, but I’d start with talking and coming to an agreement) that allows for you to be paid for your work (salary). Maybe it takes giving up some part of your equity for a flat salary, but if the work environment is okay then maybe less equity and a salary that keeps your wife happy is better than walking away with nothing. And maybe having a manager that knows the business, is invested, and is a known quantity is better for the money guy than finding someone new.

Putting it another way, it may be that you have more choices than continuing where you are hoping to someday be able to take a draw again or quitting and starting over elsewhere. Talk to the money guy and see what your options are.

Of course your wife has to be happy, so you’ll want to talk to her about this and see what is going to work for her...

Again, if I am misreading and the money guy has forced you into this corner and insists on keeping you there then ignore the above, but it sounds like that may not be the case.

It took me a while to learn this, but I have found that I usually suck at reading the other person’s mind and they are rarely much better at reading mine. What seems to work out best for me is sitting down and talking with the other party in a non-confrontational manner, letting them know where I’m coming from, what (mis?)understanding of the situation I’ve been operating under, what I need, what I’d like, then asking them where they’re coming from, what their understanding of the situation is, what they need, what they’d like, and if they have any ideas for a path forward that could work for both of us.

Sometimes the best approach is to pull the handles and bail out, but it is nice to make sure you’ve evaluated all your options before bailing.

YMMV