California's last nuclear plant to close

January 12, 2018, 09:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
Until solar releases a panel cell that will significantly increase the amount of power produced solar isn't a solution for a commercial power grid, the foot print is huge and the cost of land in CA even greater, it would have to be out in the desert areas and probably the size of nevada to make enough power to keep LA running.

Panels would never cut it. A cloud goes over and everybody’s power drops. Not going to work. Panels can be a part of the solution, but the big plants need more consistent power output. Boiling salt and other crazy stuff...

January 12, 2018, 09:24 AM

nighthawk

I wonder, do you think higher taxes might help ? That seems to be the answer to everything else .

January 12, 2018, 09:46 AM

cne32507

quote:
Originally posted by cne32507:
quote:
Originally posted by 41:
By then, re-roofing and new roofs will be solar shingles. No worry, just money saved.

$20-$25/sqft of roof. An acquaintance of mine is building a house in Pensacola with Tesla solar shingles and Tesla batteries. He put up a deposit, but has no idea as to when they will be delivered. His family business uses solar panels on their billboards.

Solar house (I hope the pay-wall lets this link work for you)

January 12, 2018, 09:56 AM

sreding

why don't we dump the waste down really deep old oil wells or in a subduction zone on a continental plate? It came from the ground - put it somewhere back in the ground that's really hard to get to and let mother nature run it's course. Hell - put it in a big block of glass or something and dump it in the Marianas trench. It'll take a few thousand years to grow godzilla.

January 12, 2018, 10:15 AM

jaaron11

quote:
Per the terms of that deal, Pacific Gas said it would transition Diablo Canyon to produce wind and solar power.

It's all about the optics for the environmental groups. Never mind that wind and solar at that site will probably only generate 5%, at most, of what the nuclear units were producing. They don't want to talk about the new combined cycle natural gas plant that will have to be built to cover the other 95%, either at Diablo or at another site. They will claim a victory, even though the deal will likely result in a net carbon increase.

January 12, 2018, 10:24 AM

Flyboyrv6

We need to IMMEDIATELY build a wall around California to prevent the population fleeing to surrounding states and contamination them with their liberal idiocy when they realize what their no-power future looks like.

January 12, 2018, 10:27 AM

Russ59

San Onofre (So Cal Edison) and Diablo Canyon have had trouble making sense in CA's hostile environmental politics.

With the low cost of gas-fired powered plants (and their flexibility), CA likely won't see nuclear again.

According to CA ISO, we peaked at 50,000 MW in July 2006, while today's peak is 26,000 MW with a capacity of 37,000 MW. Since 2000's blackouts, we've added a little capacity, improved access to additional power, but most energy reduction comes from consumers using less.

However, I can't defend the utilities raping of ratepayers. When compared to national averages and local municipalities, PG&E and SCE customers pay ridiculous prices for power.

January 12, 2018, 10:33 AM

gearhounds

I smell another shakedown aimed at Uncle Sugar for the "10 largest economy in the world" as the libtards like to term it...

January 12, 2018, 10:44 AM

djpaintles

First of all building Nuclear Power Plants in earthquake prone zones is a bad idea on the face of it. BUT!

Something that most people don't know about electrical power plants is that there are a couple kinds of power plants, Constant load and peak plants. Coal and nuclear plants are constant load plants, you fire them up and keep them going constantly to provide a consistent level of electrical power. They take quite a while to fire up and shut down so they are kept on constantly. Then there are peak load plants like natural gas plants. They fire up and are used to generate electricity during peak demand periods like morning and early evening when demand is MUCH higher than mid days or middle of the night. Just because the peak generating capacity may be above the normal level of use doesn't mean that many of those generators can be used reliably or efficiently in constant use like a coal or nuke plant.

Solar and especially wind turbines generate electricity when they are able to and this doesn't well coincide with peak load periods either. When they quote how much power a wind Turbine generates they usually quote it's maximum output but this is very deceptive since on average wind turbines generate peak capacity less than 30% if the time. Also since there is NO storage of electric on the grid Solar and Wind turbines usually generate electricity when it's least needed.

Another effect of Wind Turbines that you won't hear from the left is that they can be devestating to any flying wildlife. They KILL untold numbers of birds, bats and flying things. If Nuclear plants destroyed 1/10th the wildlife that Wind Turbines do they would have been shut down decades ago.

So managing an electric grid is pretty much a nightmare especially when you have to figure in fruit loop environmentalist etc etc.

IMO you simply have to take a balanced approach to energy. Nuclear has strong risks but is also steady and reliable power with little or no carbon impact. Maybe build them in Arizona desert where they aren't at earthquake risk. Keep developing solar and wind but also consider their environmental impact as openly as you would those of coal or gas..........

January 12, 2018, 10:48 AM

hunter62

Didn’t they already have electricity problems in California? I remember them trying to take control over everyone’s thermostat, so the government could control the temperature in your house. Not sure if that ever happened, but I know that’s what they want.

January 12, 2018, 10:51 AM

joel9507

Ah, California.

The place where their energy policies created 'rolling blackouts' back in the day. Was there when those blackouts led to the replacement of Gray Davis with the Governator.

They tried everything but market solutions to resolve the blackouts. Posters exhorting conservation, governmental calls for everyone to raise their thermostats. Newspaper editorials. The whole nonsensical warm-bath toolkit was rolled out.

It was after all those those failed miserably to move the needle that the Public Utilities Commission - which in CA sets energy prices - allowed rates to rise. That caused people to conserve, because now making the change saved them money - and like magic** - no more blackouts.

Of course, there was zero admission of this. To this day, if you ask the usual suspects, they will credit 'public awareness' and 'the community response' for resolving those rolling blackouts.

Nothing has changed. CA is going to export the production of their power....and then complain when importing it costs more than making it. You see, they can't control the prices of out-of-state producers - they will have to pay the market rate, or go without.

** Arthur C. Clarke's third law - "Any sufficiently advanced** technology is indistinguishable from magic."

January 12, 2018, 10:54 AM

jaaron11

True, djpaintles, though modern combined cycle gas plants are very efficient and are now used for base load generation across most of the country. Simple cycle combustion turbine plants have a quicker ramp rate (the time it takes to get up to full power production), but are less efficient. We typically use those as our peaking plants.

One other interesting fact most people don't know about is that hydroelectric dams do a lot more than generate electricity. When they aren't generating, they are motoring, meaning they are consuming any power fluctuations on the grid. Essentially, they act as a giant stabilizer on the transmission grid. Renewables, particularly wind power, wreak havoc on grid stability.

January 12, 2018, 11:04 AM

djpaintles

quote:
Originally posted by jaaron11:

One other interesting fact most people don't know about is that hydroelectric dams do a lot more than generate electricity. When they aren't generating, they are motoring, meaning they are consuming any power fluctuations on the grid.

jaaron11, is this in pumped storage plants only or are run of the river and storage plants able to do it also?

January 12, 2018, 11:11 AM

jaaron11

quote:
Originally posted by djpaintles:
quote:
Originally posted by jaaron11:

One other interesting fact most people don't know about is that hydroelectric dams do a lot more than generate electricity. When they aren't generating, they are motoring, meaning they are consuming any power fluctuations on the grid.

jaaron11, is this in pumped storage plants only or are run of the river and storage plants able to do it also?

Run of the river plants can motor as well. Motoring in a generator is usually a bad thing, but most newer hydro plant generators are designed for it.

January 12, 2018, 12:25 PM

PghPI

I used to work for Westinghouse NSD and worked Steam Generator Maintenance during a refueling outage in 1994. I am sure that I can't add to what has already been said in this thread, from the pros and cons of the power source to the state itself. I just know that it was one of the nicest plants that I was in during my time in that field. I visited numerous plants across the US for work but Diablo was among the favorites of all the crews. The ride into the plant is along a 7 mile long access road passing Joshua trees and scrub with native muledeer often in view. Walking down from the parking lots to the plant entrance to start an overnight shift was usually met with pods of whales or seals playing in the ocean just off the coast as the sun was setting. I fell in love with the whole central coast area, Pismo Beach, San Luis Obispo.....we used to finish work at 6am then just outside of the gates was the town of Pismo Beach. We would have a few drinks, play some pool and gamble on Keno until we had to get some sleep.......

I worked a short job at San Onofre too, only about 8 days on that one to repair a leaking plugged tube, but Diablo was the best by far. Used to get a bonus check at the end of the year if you had worked there for an outage and they completed ahead of schedule. It was a nice bonus too, 1k plus for that year.
Once again, legislators who know nothing of what is needed make laws that force economic burdens onto those that can least afford it.

January 12, 2018, 01:57 PM

corsair

quote:
Originally posted by sreding:
why don't we dump the waste down really deep old oil wells or in a subduction zone on a continental plate? It came from the ground - put it somewhere back in the ground that's really hard to get to and let mother nature run it's course. Hell - put it in a big block of glass or something and dump it in the Marianas trench. It'll take a few thousand years to grow godzilla.

Run the risk of the bad stuff getting into the water table and/or getting squeezed up through the layers. A problem folks out in the fracking areas are now dealing with.

January 12, 2018, 03:55 PM

jimmy123x

quote:
Originally posted by Flyboyrv6:
We need to IMMEDIATELY build a wall around California to prevent the population fleeing to surrounding states and contamination them with their liberal idiocy when they realize what their no-power future looks like.

Just build it out of 20' high solar panels.....LOLOLOL

January 12, 2018, 04:53 PM

nhtagmember

and don't forget the envirowhackos in CA already hate wind turbines because of avian mortality, and solar panels - well they create unnatural localized hot spots...

Californians will ALWAYS find a way to be against something but will utterly fail at coming up with a solution that actually works

they have a water shortage but divert fresh water to the ocean rather than the valley for irrigation and drinking water

they have an electrical shortage but buy it from us - we should raise our rates here in AZ to be 10X what they are now

when I was on the Zoning Board we had three groups of people:

NIMBY - Not In My Back Yard
BANANA - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone
CAVE Dweller - Citizens Against Virtually Everything