I will be flying recently and trying to decide it I take a firearm. The firearm would be a Sig 938. Would you use the plastic carrier the firearm came in as the locked case? Regulations say it has to be a hard sided case and lockable, which does cover this case. Just wondering what the thoughts are.

That's fine. You can slip a padlock (or two, one on each side of the handle) on that case.

Be aware, per FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation), you must NOT use a TSA type lock.

You must, by regulation, use a lock that only you, and not TSA, can open. You must open the case if requested by the authorities, but you must NOT give them the key or the combination. You MUST retain possession of the key at all times.

It might be a good idea to print hard copy of both the applicable paragraph of the FAR, and also a copy of the airline's policy, and have them both with you. That could potentially save a lot of time and hassle in the event that you are confronted by an airline employee or a TSA agent who does not know the rules.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Be aware, per FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation), you must NOT use a TSA type lock.

You must, by regulation, use a lock that only you, and not TSA, can open. You must open the case if requested by the authorities, but you must NOT give them the key or the combination. You MUST retain possession of the key at all times.

Partially true. There is no regulation or policy prohibiting a "TSA lock," and there is no regulation prohibiting providing the key to the TSA, or a combination. There is no regulation prohibiting TSA from accessing the weapon. Additionally, if you've checked the weapon and TSA determines there's a problem, TSA can cut the lock or prohibit the luggage from being put aboard.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/tra...earms-and-ammunition

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t...cfr#se49.9.1540_1111

I know it's a false sense of security but I like a setup that allows me to also cable it to he frame of the suitcase.
I have the metal box with cable that is designed for travel. The approved locking mechanism is included. We actually have two which were purchased over a year apart. The keys are interchangeable. :-(
In 6 years of travel I've had TSA demand the key once. I decided it wasn't the hill I wanted to die on and gave them the key. Hell they probably have a copy of one anyway.
The whole TSA approved lock thing is typical TSA (govt involvement) F'd up.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Be aware, per FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation), you must NOT use a TSA type lock.

You must, by regulation, use a lock that only you, and not TSA, can open. You must open the case if requested by the authorities, but you must NOT give them the key or the combination. You MUST retain possession of the key at all times.

Partially true. There is no regulation or policy prohibiting a "TSA lock," and there is no regulation prohibiting providing the key to the TSA, or a combination.

Looks like this has changed since I took the ATP exam.

I distinctly remember a few questions on the exam regarding this. At the time, the correct answer was: no "TSA" lock, passenger must retain the key or combination, but must open the case if requested.

I know for sure that I got the correct answer on that, as I only missed one question on the exam (I wrote a 98). The question I missed, had to do with surface lighting for high speed taxiway turn-offs, and that pissed me off, as I knew the answer, but clicked on the wrong thing on the screen. My excuse, this was the first time I ever took an FAA exam via computer. In the good old days, it was fill in the little oval things with a # 2 pencil.

I use a TSA lock on the suitcase and a non-TSA lock on the gun case. I use a foam-lined plastic case, Doskosil(?) I think. I also use a cable lock to secure the gun case to the suitcase frame.

quote:

Originally posted by Powers77:
I know it's a false sense of security but I like a setup that allows me to also cable it to he frame of the suitcase.

I wouldn't call it a false sense of security. If someone is going to break into your suitcase between your departure and arrival points, they're not going to have a lot of time to do that. They're going to want to be quick and discreet. Trying to break through a cable lock will likely not be quick and discreet.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Be aware, per FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation), you must NOT use a TSA type lock.

You must, by regulation, use a lock that only you, and not TSA, can open. You must open the case if requested by the authorities, but you must NOT give them the key or the combination. You MUST retain possession of the key at all times.

Partially true. There is no regulation or policy prohibiting a "TSA lock," and there is no regulation prohibiting providing the key to the TSA, or a combination. There is no regulation prohibiting TSA from accessing the weapon. Additionally, if you've checked the weapon and TSA determines there's a problem, TSA can cut the lock or prohibit the luggage from being put aboard.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/tra...earms-and-ammunition

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t...cfr#se49.9.1540_1111

This part:

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

...means to me no tsa lock since presumably someone else (the tsa) now has a key to your lock.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:



This part:

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

...means to me no tsa lock since presumably someone else (the tsa) now has a key to your lock.

Nothing in the regulation prohibits the TSA from access, nor specifies the type of lock, nor prohibits use of a TSA lock. Don't read into the regulation what isn't there.

Be aware that if you check a bag and board your flight, your bag may not make that flight if, during screening, TSA determines further inspection is warranted and access isn't available.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Partially true. There is no regulation or policy prohibiting a "TSA lock," and there is no regulation prohibiting providing the key to the TSA, or a combination. There is no regulation prohibiting TSA from accessing the weapon. Additionally, if you've checked the weapon and TSA determines there's a problem, TSA can cut the lock or prohibit the luggage from being put aboard.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/tra...earms-and-ammunition

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t...cfr#se49.9.1540_1111

The links you provide contain conflicting info. The ECFR site maintains the law the way most of us understand it. It says that the firearm owner must retain the key and the combination. If you use a TSA lock or give a TSA agent the key or combination you are in violation.

I'm wondering if the TSA just "decided" to make a change on their own. I fly with firearms a lot and so do a bunch of my friends. Maybe there was an announcement of the law changing and I just totally missed it but the folks I know that fly a lot pay very close attention to this stuff and shout to the rooftops when something changes.

I keep a laminated printout of the law with my checked bag and in my carry on in case of confusion. It has helped several times when some power hungry hitler wannabe decides that he/she makes the policy for their little fiefdom.

Maybe one of our resident lawyers can chime in and clarify things...

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

...means to me no tsa lock since presumably someone else (the tsa) now has a key to your lock.

Me too.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

This part:

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

...means to me no tsa lock since presumably someone else (the tsa) now has a key to your lock.

Nothing in the regulation prohibits the TSA from access, nor specifies the type of lock, nor prohibits use of a TSA lock. Don't read into the regulation what isn't there.

Be aware that if you check a bag and board your flight, your bag may not make that flight if, during screening, TSA determines further inspection is warranted and access isn't available.

Are you just making stuff up as you see it or what? The regulations are pretty clear, and as far as i know, the tsa is not supposed to be opening your locked gun case without you present. That is highly improper if they do.

Thanks guys! I have printed off the TSA regulations and the airline regulations regarding firearms and will have those with me. I have non TSA approved padlocks which I intend to use on the case. I think I do have a cable lock so I will use it to attach the gun case to the luggage framework. I have never flown with a firearm so this will be a first. Thanks again for all your help.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

Are you just making stuff up as you see it or what? The regulations are pretty clear, and as far as i know, the tsa is not supposed to be opening your locked gun case without you present. That is highly improper if they do.

I am not making this up (do it for a living).

There is nothing in the regulation that prohibits use of a TSA lock. Read the regulation. Don't try to interpret it. Read. it. There is no prohibition against the use of a common-key lock. None.

Yes, you are required to retain the key. This means that if you put a lock on the case, and you must put a lock on the case, the key to that lock stays with you. You don't leave it in your car. You don't give it to a friend. You don't pass it around the terminal. You keep it with you.

There is no prohibition against TSA inspecting your luggage, including your firearm. When you enter the airport and buy a ticket you enter into a contract and an agreement that by occupying that space, and by checking your luggage, and by buying and using a ticket, you and all your property is subject to inspection.

When you check your firearm, if TSA cannot access your firearm for inspection, you will be asked to open the case. If you are not available and the case cannot be opened, the firearm cannot be transported. In other words, drop your bags, get on your flight, and it's possible that your bags won't travel with you.

When you enter the airport to make a flight, you'll notice signs up all over the place which tell you that entering that area, all personnel and property is subject to inspection and search. These signs are for disclosure. If you do not agree to search, you can leave, and nobody will put a gun to your head and force you to take that flight. Your choice, but you are subject to search and inspection at any time.

The regulation does not prohibit the TSA from inspecting or accessing your firearm. Think about it. It's TSA regulation. The TSA did not craft regulations to prevent themselves from doing their job. For safety and security reasons, every effort will be made to have you present, and in most cases, if you're not present, your luggage will be prevented from travel if there's a need to search your firearm, but the TSA is not prevented from access to your firearm, nor from cutting locks on your luggage. Don't read into the regulation what isn't there.

There is no prohibition against the TSA having a key to your luggage; the requirement is that you retain your key. If TSA has a duplicate key because it is a "TSA lock," this is not a violation of the regulation. Again, it is TSA regulation. Think about that.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Again, it is TSA regulation. Think about that.

I think I will continue to follow the LAW as written and not worry so much about the TSA regulation. It has served me and thousands of others well so far. The 3-4 times I've been harassed by hitler lite they've lost every time the TSA supervisor came over. On a couple of those occasions the supervisor told his agent that it was a shame I knew the LAW better than the agent did.

The great thing about America is you can interpret the rules any way you want to.

Do you not find it a bit funny that everyone else in this thread is of the same opinion as I am? And every one I know that flies with firearms shares this opinion? Regulations are issued for guidance. LAWS are written to be followed.

Do you work for the TSA?

Do I work for TSA? Not quite.

The law as it's written has already been given, found in the code of federal regulations, and it IS what governs what you can carry. Each airline will also have standards which may be more restrictive, but never more liberal, than the regulation.

And no you don't get to "interpret the rules any way you want to." Not in the slightest.

"Once the firearms are inside the box, close and lock it. For boxes that have multiple spots for locks, each location must have a lock.

“If you have just one lock on there, we are probably going to contact you to put more on,” Howell said. That could cause an issue because most people don’t have additional locks with them.

The locks cannot be TSA recognized locks , which allow TSA officers to open and re-lock during physical inspections of regular bags. Rather, the locks have to be the type that only you can use — either a combination or key lock.

“ You have to be the only one able to open the lock ,” Howell said." TSA offical to KC Star

I'll go with what this guy says

quote:

Originally posted by cne32507:


I'll go with what this guy says

If only that were backed up with say...regulation. Even a statement to that effect on the TSA website (which I've already linked). Neither say any such thing. So you'll prefer a newspaper article as your legal guidance, then.

Good thinking.

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and ONLY the passenger retains the key or combination.

I really dont know how you could interpret this to mean anything else than what it plainly says.

Look, I had a much longer post about how wrong it is to assert that the TSA can and will break into your locked firearm case willy nilly as a matter of course (excluding extreme extenuating circumstances of course) but instead decided to just cut through the bull for the sake of the OP...

You should never use a tsa lock on your locked firearm case. Period.

On this subject, suitcases can be easily opened with just a pen. Your gun can be in a locked case, in a locked suitcase and still be stolen. Short version, stick the pen into the zipper, open, then use the self healing aspect of zippers to close the suitcase.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wpIJVWXsBBI

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and ONLY the passenger retains the key or combination.

I really dont know how you could interpret this to mean anything else than what it plainly says.

The regulation does not address the type of lock beyond a generic reference to a keyed lock or a combination lock. Nowhere does the regulation state that a "TSA lock" cannot or should not be used. It states that the owner of the lock shall retain the key, period. You're reading into it what is not there.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Look, I had a much longer post about how wrong it is to assert that the TSA can and will break into your locked firearm case willy nilly as a matter of course (excluding extreme extenuating circumstances of course) but instead decided to just cut through the bull for the sake of the OP...

No one but you has suggested any such thing, least of all me. There has been no suggestion of the TSA breaking into locked cases "willy nilly." In fact, I stated the exact opposite. Reading comprehension is key.