I'm in North Richland Hills, TX...which is 10 minutes from Fort Worth. I haven't the foggiest idea how to help, wish I did. If you need an address or something looked up I can try and assist. Don't know what else I could do.. Good luck!

Personally I feel like you're being completely reasonable if you follow the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" sentiment. I see no harm in messing up one visitation if it means it maintains the child's welfare. If the cat is out of the bag as it sounds then you may need to really stay on top of things this next week. As was mentioned, Dad may pull the kid out early from school or activities.

I'd make sure I was extra diligent, especially the day before the normal transition day. I would also make sure I know a good solid descriptions of all the vehicles they own, possibly with pictures and plate numbers. And current photos of everyone potentially involved.

James, Some questions for you first. How old is the child? Does the child want to go with Dad? My guess is that granny is financing this operation? Does anyone have a bad history with the police?

My Dallas based brother who is an attorney will/would likely be able to help with a competent Ft Worth attorney when I can reach him in Ecuador. I will let you know.

Now to the meat of the matter. I just handled a case like this recently for a friend/relative-in-law. Ex-husband was planning to take child from Denver area up to near Wyoming border suing for principal custody.

Sadly for him he is vulnerable due to 2 DWI's. So I arranged for him to be caught drunk coming out of a bar. 3rd DWI. But the ex-wife will lose child support. However the harassment will stop.

How bad do you want this to stop?

I'm telling you, the child is sick and shouldn't go to school and pass this cold around.
It isn't polite to make others sick.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
I'm telling you, the child is sick and shouldn't go to school and pass this cold around.
It isn't polite to make others sick.

There's been a nasty flu bug going around, too.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Don't let the kid go.

If its unenforceable by the cops if he runs off with the kid- then it's also unenforceable by the cops if you keep the kid over moving weekend.

Of course make up a plausible excuse and disappear for a 4-day weekend somewhere.

I know it is not as sexy and fun, but what is wrong with just calling them and making it clear it seems like you guys are moving, anything you want to tell me?

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
I know it is not as sexy and fun, but what is wrong with just calling them and making it clear it seems like you guys are moving, anything you want to tell me?

So crazy, it just might work!

This is my day job. Please ignore the non-lawyers. As usual, some of the advice is spectacularly wrong.

See my responses interleaved below.

quote:

1) Is it illegal to move a child out of state if you are under a divorce decree / court order not to take the child out-of-state?

Not criminally illegal. But the court that made that order will be very unhappy.

2) What CAN police / LE do if a child is not where they are supposed to be?

Not much. Until they get an order from the court directing them to grab the kid, they won't do anything. And they shouldn't. The police don't know the situation, and someone ALWAYS claims the other side is dead wrong. You don't want the police acting as the court.

3) Based on the officer's comments, seemed like "its civil" is the typical response, so what advice does ANYONE have to locate the father/girlfriend in FT WORTH if they take off? Bounty Hunter? Private detective? Local PD?

Private eyes. But parent's don't usually hide out. You'll probably get some info about where they live.

4) There is a no contact order in place between father and mom (my significant other), can I follow dad on Friday to find out where he is?

Yes, but don't. You are too close. It can get sideways quick.

Of course, we have his SSN and DL (but sometimes he works under-the-table). We have her name and past employers. We can possibly get her DL (via an incident report from previous issues that is redacted on our copy). We have grandmom's general info. We have a description of their only car with CO License.

Any assistance is appreciated!

James in Denver

The Colorado court that rendered the order retains jurisdiction even if they go to Texas. If you need Ft. Worth counsel, I can get you a name, but you may not.

I think you are a little ahead of yourself. One, I bet your order says you can't move the CHILD out of the state. It would probably be unconstitutional to prevent a party from moving out of a state. The court could require notice, but it can't prevent him from moving if he doesn't take the kid.

Consult your Colorado lawyer. That is critical. Calm down. Nothing has happened yet.

quote:

Originally posted by EasyFire:
James, Some questions for you first. How old is the child? Does the child want to go with Dad? My guess is that granny is financing this operation? Does anyone have a bad history with the police?

Child is 8. She loves her dad, but knows her "home" is with mom. She does not want to leave mom and does not overly enjoy visitation with dad. She feels he does not love her (he pays attention to the 2 year old with the new girlfriend).

Grandmom may be financing it, he is in financial trouble. That said, my SO says that grandmom does NOT like to get involved, and is pretty scared of all consequences in life (kind of a scaredy cat).

No bad history on anyone's part EXCEPT for an incident that happened at the school between dad and me. No charges, I stepped in. He said "he pushed me", I said he was intimidating her. Police came, nothing done (except separate us). No punches or anything. Video shows him being agressive and me stepping in. Independant PRE (parental responsibilities evaluator) commented that it was clear that he was intimidating her. At the scene, officer told me "You stepped in at the right moment, and stepped out". Again, no charges.

quote:

My Dallas based brother who is an attorney will/would likely be able to help with a competent Ft Worth attorney when I can reach him in Ecuador. I will let you know.

Yes, please. As mentioned, if we can stop it BEFORE it happens, we wont need it, but yes, if we do. My email in my profile is accurate.

quote:

Now to the meat of the matter. I just handled a case like this recently for a friend/relative-in-law. Ex-husband was planning to take child from Denver area up to near Wyoming border suing for principal custody.

Sadly for him he is vulnerable due to 2 DWI's. So I arranged for him to be caught drunk coming out of a bar. 3rd DWI. But the ex-wife will lose child support. However the harassment will stop.

How bad do you want this to stop?

Badly, and yes, if there was anything like that we could use, we would like to. But, he's not an alcoholic nor does he use drugs. He may be physcial with his current GF, but nothing on file. Never physical with the kid or his ex (my SO). Bottomline is that he is not a very good dad, and just an all around jerk, but no criminal background or bad stuff.

He does have a CDL, and he is a truck driver by trade. Not sure what he does under-the-table.

Thanks for any help.

James

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
I know it is not as sexy and fun, but what is wrong with just calling them and making it clear it seems like you guys are moving, anything you want to tell me?

So crazy, it just might work!

Absolutely try this. I know talking to your ex seems like crazy talk, but . . .

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
This is my day job. Please ignore the non-lawyers. As usual, some of the advice is spectacularly wrong.

...edit...

The Colorado court that rendered the order retains jurisdiction even if they go to Texas.

I think you are a little ahead of yourself. One, I bet your order says you can't move the CHILD out of the state. It would probably be unconstitutional to prevent a party from moving out of a state. The court could require notice, but it can't prevent him from moving if he doesn't take the kid.

Consult your Colorado lawyer. That is critical. Calm down. Nothing has happened yet.

Yes, you are correct. The decree even states "No party can move out of the Denver metro area (as defined as ABC DEF etc counties. And if one parent wants to move without the child, the parent must communicate this to the other parent as soon as possible". Paraphrasing but close.

And yes, we've called the attorney. We have 1 week.

And yes, I know you ARE a lawyer.

That said, as mentioned in the first post, we have pretty good idea that he's moving (per the LinkedIn post from her) AND the child indicated that the landlord asked him about a move-out date and he said March 10th (which is the START of his weekend visitation).

So, thanks for the advice, call is in the the lawyer, but the point IS to stop it before it starts.

Some good advice here (wrong or right), we have considered many of these.

That said, I just came back from Wal-Mart. We dropped by the front of store with the missing kids. One shown had a mom and young boy, missing since 2008. Felony arrest warrant issued but it's been 10 years and the kid is still missing.

So waiting just to see what happens, honestly, is not an option if at all possible.

James in Denver

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
I know it is not as sexy and fun, but what is wrong with just calling them and making it clear it seems like you guys are moving, anything you want to tell me?

So crazy, it just might work!

Absolutely try this. I know talking to your ex seems like crazy talk, but . . .

Yep, that's one thing I've already suggested, but we are waiting for the lawyer as to what to say in the communication.

Yes, we will be using the court ordered website. I never knew there was such a thing, but it exists. Cool idea though, keeps everyone in line because they know the court has access to the communication and it IS admissable.

James

If it were my kid I would let her go then sit my ass in the car outside his place on a steakout. No harm no foul. On the other hand if he is leaving and doesn't plan on taking her this could be the last time she gets to see her dad in a long time.

I thought you said Dad said he was moving after the 10th?

Call Dad before next weekend. Call him now. Ask him when he is moving. Ask him if he intends to exercise possession after the move and how? Be cool - you sound very worked up right now, and need to have a rational conversation. It should be the mom, not you, most likely.

Does your order of possession allow possession outside of the Denver area? If so, how are you to handle the exchanges and travel?

Parental kidnapping is not at all common. I've been practicing family law for about 12 years. I've had one instance of it, and this is not how it happens. You'd likely have no indication at all it was coming.

Don't panic, because your lawyer will call you on Monday and go over the order with you and describe what everyone's rights are and what your options are.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
If it were my kid I would let her go then sit my ass in the car outside his place on a steakout. No harm no foul. On the other hand if he is leaving and doesn't plan on taking her this could be the last time she gets to see her dad in a long time.

We have thought of both scenarios, yes.

If he's leaving, and wants to say goodbye, I'm actually sorry that would happen, but I'd want him to say goodbye in a way that it doesn't hurt the kid.

Public streets are public streets. LEO may get made, not sure. He lives in middle-of-the-road area, so might not be a problem.

James

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I thought you said Dad said he was moving after the 10th?

Child said landlord said 10th and dad may have said something like "a few days after that".

quote:

Call Dad before next weekend. Call him now. Ask him when he is moving. Ask him if he intends to exercise possession after the move and how?

As mentioned, can't call. Can use talking parents dot com. We're waiting on the lawyer to give us advice on what to say/ask.

quote:

Does your order of possession allow possession outside of the Denver area? If so, how are you to handle the exchanges and travel?

Vacations must be scheduled. He gets every other weekend (and some thursdays), spelled out in the plan. 5 2 2 5 in summer. Vacations must be approved (out of state) with a huge communication deal spelled out (number of calls per day, etc).

Exchanges ONLY at after school program or at a neutral police station designated as between the houses.

No exchanges allowed outside of Denver, but mainly because you're not allow outside of Denver without prior notification and "approval"

quote:

Parental kidnapping is not at all common. I've been practicing family law for about 12 years. I've had one instance of it, and this is not how it happens. You'd likely have no indication at all it was coming.

This is the problem. We DON'T have notification. All this was because the child told us, then we snooped. Until he discovered my SO had been on the LinkedIn, they had no idea we knew. Only because the child was telling us. He actually asked the child "Does your mom know we are moving?" and got MAD at the child when he saw the LinkedIn (linkedin shows who viewed you). His social media went black.

He doesn't know we know. (edit to say that I mean no official communication from him saying he's moving and no official communication from us saying we know he's moving)

BTW, the linkedin issue happened FRIDAY (i.e. YESTERDAY!). That was the first indication of a real move.

quote:

Don't panic, because your lawyer will call you on Monday and go over the order with you and describe what everyone's rights are and what your options are.

This is sort of why I told my SO that we needed to call the lawyer sooner, when we were suspecting things but had no proof. We didn't, now we have to wait.

Yes, a bit panicky, but you said it yourself, we'd likely have no indication. And we DIDN'T if the child hadn't come back and "tattle-tailed" on the dad which started us snooping.

Thanks!
James

One reply from SigForum member offline. THANKS!!!

SigForum rocks.

If anyone else has comments/advice or can help if things go south and I have to travel to Ft Worth, please give me a shout, either on the thread or via email.

James in Denver

To start, the advice for your GF to violate the custody arrangements first is just horrible.

First, it will put her (and possibly you) on the bad side of the judge who ordered the arrangements.

Second, despite what the cop told you, there is potential criminal liability in these scenarios, including in Colorado.

Her attorney should know, and be able to educate you both, on Colorado Revised Statute (CRS) 18-3-304.

Follow the very wise advice of jhe888, and don't do anything rash.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:
Her attorney should know, and be able to educate you both, on Colorado Revised Statute (CRS) 18-3-304.

FROM CRS 18-3-304 section 3:
(3) It shall be an affirmative defense either that the offender reasonably believed that his conduct was necessary to preserve the child from danger to his welfare, or that the child, being at the time more than fourteen years old, was taken away at his own instigation without enticement and without purpose to commit a criminal offense with or against the child.