+1, agreed

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by chessiedog1:
Repeat this



"I feared for my life, I would like my Lawyer present" repeat this hundreds of times.

For goodness sakes, never say this. Ever. Only guilty people say this.

Say something like “ I want to cooperate fully. I want to speak to an attorney first.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

-when the cops get there, tell them you will give a statement, after you have spoken to your lawyer
-then shut up

Gabe Suarez says otherwise. Just sayin'.

He offers a class on post-shooting and simply shutting up and lawyering up isn't part of it.

I have not taken his class but have read his blogs.

how many people has Gabe Suarez defended in court after a shooting?

i can't think of ANYTHING you would say immediately after a shooting that would 'exonerate' you that you couldn't say at a later time with an attorney

I can think of A LOT of stuff you could say without one that would IMPLICATE you in terms of potential criminality

I realize in the heat of the moment you want to try to explain why you did what you did - beyond providing extremely BASIC info everything I have read over the years says STFU ...

------------------------------------------------

Gabe does not "defend" anyone in court. He is not a lawyer. However, he is called often as a SME.

If you want to understand my comment about Gabe, read his blog.

Read this guy's book. It's not expensive. Then watch his weekly podcasts. They're free.
Marksmanship is one thing, legal advice is a completely different issue.

https://lawofselfdefense.com/

"Officer, I was in fear for my life. I intend to cooperate fully with your investigation. At this time, however, I want to speak with my attorney." Do not say a damn thing more until you have your attorney there.

I've heard these points made by other people, but Mas lays them out pretty clearly here.




Link to original video: https://youtu.be/pCZXZMYyRl4

quote:

Originally posted by HKAngusKL:
"Officer, I was in fear for my life. I intend to cooperate fully with your investigation. At this time, however, I want to speak with my attorney."

Nothing as convincing as a well rehearsed, scripted, speech.

Yes, but saying something stupid, that can be used against you later on, is much worse. Anything you say can and will be used against you. Anything you don't say can't be. So less is more. But there are certain pieces of information that need to be conveyed immediately (see the video above.) Convey them, then shut up and call your lawyer.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by HKAngusKL:
"Officer, I was in fear for my life. I intend to cooperate fully with your investigation. At this time, however, I want to speak with my attorney."

Nothing as convincing as a well rehearsed, scripted, speech.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by HKAngusKL:
"Officer, I was in fear for my life. I intend to cooperate fully with your investigation. At this time, however, I want to speak with my attorney."

Nothing as convincing as a well rehearsed, scripted, speech.

If you have the misfortune of having to use a weapon in self defense, letting an attorney talk for you is the only right answer. You are not going to convince anyone of anything at the scene. An LEO's job is to gather information and evidence. Not to help you in any way, shape, or form. And because local criminal statutes vary, asking your friends on the internet is not a great plan either.

If you concealed carry a firearm, having a defense attorney picked out ahead of time and their contact info is not a bad idea.

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

-when the cops get there, tell them you will give a statement, after you have spoken to your lawyer
-then shut up

Gabe Suarez says otherwise. Just sayin'.

He offers a class on post-shooting and simply shutting up and lawyering up isn't part of it.

I have not taken his class but have read his blogs.

how many people has Gabe Suarez defended in court after a shooting?

i can't think of ANYTHING you would say immediately after a shooting that would 'exonerate' you that you couldn't say at a later time with an attorney

I can think of A LOT of stuff you could say without one that would IMPLICATE you in terms of potential criminality

I realize in the heat of the moment you want to try to explain why you did what you did - beyond providing extremely BASIC info everything I have read over the years says STFU ...

------------------------------------------------

Gabe does not "defend" anyone in court. He is not a lawyer. However, he is called often as a SME.

If you want to understand my comment about Gabe, read his blog.

Does he have the ability to testify in court as a convicted felon?

Simply tell the police officer that you don't want to say anything because you're worried about being sued.

It's credible all around.

V.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
Does he have the ability to testify in court as a convicted felon?

Is he a convicted felon?

I googled as I couldn’t see how he could teach firearms as a convicted felon and from what I read it sounds like he may have pled to a misdemeanor. The different responses were interesting in the threads I read. Folks seemed to either think he should have been buried under the jail or that he was railroaded and shouldn’t have been hassled at all.

I have no knowledge of him or the case other than what I read, which seemed long on opinion and short on fact on both sides. Maybe my google-fu just sucks?

Liberal shit stains have taken over and are doing everything they can to ruin this country. An example: When I was a corrections officer we had to qualify once a year with a handgun firing at different distances from the standard silhouette target. You had to make 70 percent of your shots hit com or you failed.

Well then some shitbird con escaped (not where I worked) and the officer in the mobile patrol unit shot him in the head. Mommy and daddy sued because their boy dindu nuffin. Don't know how that ended up but after that we no longer had to even hit the target during qualification and scores were never recorded. One time I was shooting next to some kid that couldn't hit the target at 7 yards with a 4 inch S&W 38 special revolver. He passed.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

Does he have the ability to testify in court as a convicted felon?

Yes. Counsel can try to impeach his credibility with the conviction in some circumstances. He is not, however, disabled from giving evidence.

Slosig is also right. If he were a convicted felon, he could not possess a firearm, and that would make teaching shooting very difficult. He probably wasn't convicted of (or plead guilty to) a felony.

I feel as though a lot of the fear around "what happens after you shoot" is perpetuated through advertisements for more training, more classes, textbooks and supplemental class material, other books by trainers and lawyer types, as well as those concealed-carry insurance companies nowadays.

Much of one's desire to carry a firearm is predicated upon that person's desire to be prepared. I think this proclivity toward preparation if not over-preparation allows a lot of people to give into the borderline fear-mongering being peddled and hawked to all the gun owners.

I've seen the youtube ads that start with the nice dad- or grandpa-looking guy saying how he always thought he was ready and willing to defend his life and his family, but then the police showed up and started shouting commands and... "to see what happened next, come to our website and prepare yourself! the cops are not your friend!" etc., etc.

One CFP-class teacher here sold his class to students for $50 to allow them to get the Utah CFP, and then for another $50 or so, would sell them a "what to do after you shoot" disc that had some material on it - recommendations, the "I feared for my life" thing, and other suggestions, as well as an excel document giving the end user a platform in which to write in "necessary information" for after a shooting - Lawyers name and number, emergency contact, something like that.

It all seems like fairly common sense stuff to have on-hand, with a few basic tips on how to deal with police, lawyers, and the courts, but as far as how much every gun owner has considered, I think these "what if's" are probably just like anything else in the gun world - there's a lot of all-or-nothing, a lot who tend to go overboard or tend to ignore trends completely. To be honest, the fear-mongering feel about the "what if" makes me really not want to buy into all the gun shop/gunshow BS about the horror stories. However, because I know it could happen, there are a few lawyers I know of beforehand, I know what I'd say, etc. and that's enough for me.

OK I understand "don't talk to the police and assert your right to an attorney." Then what? I assume they take you in and lock you up or keep you until you talk to them along with your lawyer? How does one go about choosing a lawyer? I assume that alone could take time.

I should have started another thread because I'm off the handgun training topic..... sorry.

^^^^^^

I'd assume they'd take you in under those circumstances.

I'm thinking there has to be some judgement used in these situations and the reaction adjusted accordingly. If the incident happened out on the street at 2:30AM, there are going to be a lot more questions than if it happened in your own home at the same time.

If you were sleeping, someone kicked in the door, made it to the second floor bedroom and you shot him right there, I don't know that there is a lot of benefit in lawyering up before telling the story. Yours is the only version that will be told and the evidence will confirm it.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
Does he have the ability to testify in court as a convicted felon?

Is he a convicted felon?

I googled as I couldn’t see how he could teach firearms as a convicted felon

He instructs using a "Blue Gun" or an Airsoft gun. Only his "assistant trainers" handle firearms

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

Does he have the ability to testify in court as a convicted felon?

Yes. Counsel can try to impeach his credibility with the conviction in some circumstances. He is not, however, disabled from giving evidence.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that.

Maybe because I've never seen a felon called to the witness stand...other than snitches

Do not tell 911 there has been shooting. Tell the call taker you need the police now. Do not, I reapeat, do not say a word to any law enforcement officer or anyone else(including me)until you’ve spoken with an attorney. Remember any thing you say WILL be held against you. Be polite. We actually understand the stress you are under. The only issues with skill sets, is whether or not the subject is DRT. Wound them, they will sue.

Each state is a little different in terms of the legal approach to this subject. Go check out your local gun rights organization or gun club for local recommendations and procedures.

Some clubs are better than others for this type of info.

V.