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Picture of Dead_Eye
posted
quote:
A judge in Florida ruled Monday that the state's updated "stand your ground" law, which required prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense case at pretrial hearings, is unconstitutional, setting up a showdown that could make its way to the state's top court.

Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that the amendment to the law allowed lawmakers to overstep their authority, adding that it should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court in the first place, The Miami Herald reported.

“As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified,” Hirsch wrote.

The Florida Supreme Court had ruled in 2015 to shift the burden to defendants, requiring them to prove in pretrial hearings that they were defending themselves in order to avoid prosecution on charges for a violent act.

Florida Gov. Rick Scott signed the amended legislation, backed by the National Rifle Association, into effect in June. Prosecutors were vehemently against the updated law because they believed it made it easier for defendants to get away from murder. Prosecutors also had to provide "clear and convincing" evidence that a defendant was not using the force as an act of self-defense.

The law was first passed in 2005 and it gave people the right to "shoot first" if they believed their lives were in danger at that moment.

"A person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself," the Florida law states.

It also gave judges the right to dismiss charges against the defendant if they believed reasonable self-defense was used in the case.

In states without the "stand your ground law," people must retreat first before using force.

The controversial self-defense law came into the spotlight during George Zimmerman's case in 2012, when the neighborhood watchman shot and killed the unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Central Florida.

Zimmerman's attorney argued his client used force because he "reasonably" believed his life was in immediate danger.

A jury ultimately acquitted Zimmerman of second-degree murder.


Link


From what I've read this judge is a real dink. Hopefully his decision can be appealed and overturned.


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Posts: 368 | Location: Somplace with cold drinks and warm women | Registered: May 04, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Miami-Dade Circuit Judge

Shocker.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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Defending ones self is a right one has despite what any court says.




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Posts: 15501 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Legalize the Constitution
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Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that the amendment to the law allowed lawmakers to overstep their authority, adding that it should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court in the first place, The Miami Herald reported.

That's an interesting view. The judge feels the courts should draft legislation?!? Separation of Powers is pretty sacrosanct in most of the country...there's this document


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Posts: 13165 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And separation of powers was the basis for the judge's decision. Hirsch was either as high as a kite or has a remarkably nihilistic sense of humor.

Roll on the appeal to the state supreme court.
 
Posts: 27291 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Essayons
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So, those of you who are knowledgeable about the current Florida Supreme Court and the politics there surrounding this issue, how is this likely to turn out?

Is "Stand Your Ground" irreparibly weakened now in Florida?

Or will the Florida Supreme Court bolster the right to self-defense by turning this Miami-Dade Circuit Court judge's decision around?

And why do you think it will go the way you predict?


Thanks,

Sap
 
Posts: 3452 | Location: Arimo, Idaho | Registered: February 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't get the original 2015 ruling that shifted the burden of proof to defendants; I thought in any criminal or potential criminal trial the burden of proof always was on the prosecution.



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Posts: 4354 | Location: Thonotosassa, FL | Registered: February 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Belwolf:
I don't get the original 2015 ruling that shifted the burden of proof to defendants; I thought in any criminal or potential criminal trial the burden of proof always was on the prosecution.


I don't know about Florida, but in WA self-defense is an "affirmative defense" which in my very non-legalistic understanding is that the shooter admits that he shot, that he shot on purpose, and he should be held not guilty of a crime because the shooting was required to preserve life or limb of himself or another innocent. He has to prove it was necessary for a reasonable person knowing what he knew at the time.

Florida's was better but it's not the end of life as we know it until it gets sorted out.


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Posts: 6354 | Location: Washington | Registered: November 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Am The Walrus
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Wow. I read that as the defendant is guilty of murder until proven innocent...


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Chilihead and Barbeque Aficionado
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The Florida Supreme Court is pretty liberal. I'm being diplomatic.


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Posts: 10487 | Location: FL | Registered: December 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 2Adefender:
The Florida Supreme Court is pretty liberal. I'm being diplomatic.
Ah, maybe, maybe not. If I were betting on this one, I'd give it less than a 50/50 shot of being upheld by the Florida Supreme Court. Let's wait and see where it goes...


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Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by TMats:
quote:
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that the amendment to the law allowed lawmakers to overstep their authority, adding that it should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court in the first place, The Miami Herald reported.

That's an interesting view. The judge feels the courts should draft legislation?!? Separation of Powers is pretty sacrosanct in most of the country...there's this document


I was thinking the same thing, but then, the quote you are reading is the Miami Herald's interpretation of the judge's comments (not a direct quote).

Either way, sounds like the Supreme Court may get their chance. Florida does have intermediate district courts of appeal, but this may be a big enough issue that either side would want it to go all the way (issues of cert. not withstanding).
 
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The Dims in the NC state legislature are trying to repeal our stand your ground law (again) and get rid of the immunity from liability for justified use of deadly force.

Link
 
Posts: 4006 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
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quote:
Originally posted by Dead_Eye:
Link


From what I've read this judge is a real dink. Hopefully his decision can be appealed and overturned.


Like all liberals today, he referenced Harry Potter in his ruling. Roll Eyes

From another article:
quote:
The ruling in and of itself is narrow, does not apply to the rest of the state, and will likely be overturned in the Third District Court of Appeal, which tends to be more favorable to the state in cases like this one. But it's still an important decision for justice advocates, who opposed the bill when state Sen. Rob Bradley proposed it last December.

Miami Judge References Harry Potter to Strike Down New "Stand Your Ground" Law



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Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That was one of the biggest pieces of drivel I've ever had the misfortune of reading. The author is both liberal, a liar, and a moron.


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Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
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The controversial self-defense law came into the spotlight during George Zimmerman's case in 2012, when the neighborhood watchman shot and killed the unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Central Florida.

Zimmerman's attorney argued his client used force because he "reasonably" believed his life was in immediate danger.

A jury ultimately acquitted Zimmerman of second-degree murder.


What is being left out here is the part where unarmed teenager was on top of Zimmerman bashing Zimmerman's headl into a concrete sidewalk. Not really a lot of controversy there.
 
Posts: 10821 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Belwolf:
I don't get the original 2015 ruling that shifted the burden of proof to defendants; I thought in any criminal or potential criminal trial the burden of proof always was on the prosecution.


The scary thing is, how can you get an impartial jury if it's already been determined in pre-trial hearings that you are ineligible for self-defense.
 
Posts: 3468 | Registered: January 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The conservative Florida Legislature has consistently been chipping away at chapter 776 to stop overzealous prosecutors from prosecuting legitimate self defense cases (like the George Zimmerman case). All the most recent amendment to the law does is remove the burden of proof of innocence from the defendant and place the burden of proof of guilt on the prosecutor. Right where it belongs.

Florida's law on justifiable use of force (Florida Statutes chapter 776) is quite clear that you cannot be arrested and you cannot be prosecuted if your use of force is justified under chapter 776. The problem arises when law enforcement determines that the use of force was not justified and there is probable cause that a crime was committed. The defendant in those cases is entitled to a stand your ground hearing where a judge determines if there is probable cause to go forward with a trial, or that the use of force was justified and the charge is dismissed.

Some prosecutors are upset that the newly enacted law requires the prosecution to prove that the force was NOT justified, rather than the defendant having to prove it WAS justified. You know, kind of like what the constitution requires. (This does not apply to cases where someone forcibly enters your dwelling or occupied vehicle, or the imminent commission of a forcible felony, in which case you have a presumption of fear).

My money is on the law being upheld by the Florida Supreme Court, but we shall see.


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Posts: 4358 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
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Zimmerman's case was not a Stand Your Ground case, as I recall. He was outright attacked and had no opportunity to disengage. Is that correct?




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Posts: 11444 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
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Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Zimmerman's case was not a Stand Your Ground case, as I recall. He was outright attacked and had no opportunity to disengage. Is that correct?
Zimmerman's attorneys never claimed 'Stand Your Ground' as a defense. That was simply the media and anti-gun groups irresponsibly spinning this in a way that supported their agenda.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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