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What recourse do I have when a long distance gun buy goes bad? UPDATE Login/Join 
Member
Picture of Rick Lee
posted
I am not yet sure this is fraud, but (private party) seller has been very slow to ship and communicate, blames his FFL. His FFL has been the same, blames his wife. Neither can get me a tracking #. There are a good 2000 miles between us. How can I escalate this to law enforcement, if I need to?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rick Lee,
 
Posts: 1624 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Can you supply any more information on this? How did you initially connect, what happened since, how was it paid?
 
Posts: 1100 | Location: S/W Illinois | Registered: October 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gene Hillman:
Can you supply any more information on this? How did you initially connect, what happened since, how was it paid?

And, what is the time frame, so far?


Q


2016 MAGA ---> 2020 KAG
* P228 factoids *


 
Posts: 18047 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
Picture of mrvmax
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Good luck getting paw enforcement help, they will most likely claim it’s a civil matter. The only protection I can think of is paying by credit card.
 
Posts: 2781 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of cas
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Some will say you shouldn't "out" them or use the forum to handle your personal problems, but if you give a location and busIness name there's a chance someone here may know them. At least to give a "They're on the level, give them time" or "they've got a bad rep, be worried."


_____________________________________________________
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 16876 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Rick Lee
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It wasn't on this forum, but the seller had a good rep. I paid via PayPal Gift, which I know is risky, but I wasn't going to have time to get the cash and then buy a money order for a few days. Seller said he would ship last Mon, then said he dropped it off at his FFL on Tues., then promised me tracking and went radio silent. Today he acted like his end of the deal was done because he dropped it off at his FFL. His FFL lied to me about having already shipped last week, then said his wife did it. Finally, he sent me tracking today, which showed he shipped today. Then he forgot to put a hard copy of his FFL in the package. Just a clustfook all around.
 
Posts: 1624 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just for the
hell of it
Picture of comet24
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If you get it, just a little late and it is as described I would just right it off and learn from it.

Sounds like his FFL may have dropped the ball on shipping it. Kinda crappy that he wouldn't follow up with his FFL for you.

BTW I would never pay for a gun with Paypal no matter what. Not just their anti 2nd views but they will screw you over if they find out what it was.


_____________________________________

Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain. Jack Kerouac
 
Posts: 15178 | Registered: March 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nosce te ipsum
Picture of Woodman
posted Hide Post
When I finally acquired my grail carry 1911, it was nothing like the picture. Rattling and loose, looking like it came off 5,000 rounds at their range.

Weeks to get satisfaction. Sometimes you wish you were a giant wearing big Red Wing boots and you could just stomp on a-holes like this one seller.
 
Posts: 6998 | Location: Mid-Atlantic Region | Registered: March 24, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Rick Lee
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I have done so many deals for guns, car parts, musical instruments, high end watches, you name it, with complete strangers since the dawn of the Internet, and this is the first time I've come close to getting screwed. Plenty of times people have sent me tracking info before I paid them. I even tried to buy a watch in Germany from a shop that didn't take credit cards. They told me to take the watch and wire them the funds when I got back home. I really have been lucky, so I probably assume too charitably that others are all good folks.
 
Posts: 1624 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I've always been Crazy!
kept me from goin Insane!
posted Hide Post
Contact PayPal tell them what happened. They will temp lock your account. The will probably reverse the payment and may permanently ban the seller. Buying/selling firearms on PayPal is a big no-no of their rules


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A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact.
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Posts: 2074 | Location: Lyndon,KS | Registered: November 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would give it a little time. Sometimes people get busy, someone forgets, etc.

I once about 10 years ago bought a Colt 1911 from the classifieds here. I kept checking with my FFL (a busy gun store) and they kept saying they didn't receive it. Seller kept saying he sent it, then provided tracking details and it showed it arrived at my gun store. So I drove there, with the tracking details...….Turns out the seller stuck the Colt 1911 in a grey HK plastic gun box to ship it in, and it was sitting on one of their shelves, but since the box was an HK box, they never imagined it had a 1911 in it......and was sitting there all along.
 
Posts: 17608 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by southernmaninla:
Contact PayPal tell them what happened. They will temp lock your account. The will probably reverse the payment and may permanently ban the seller. Buying/selling firearms on PayPal is a big no-no of their rules

The gun is already shipped (today). Why do you want to do anything? The FFL forgot to include a copy of the license? How hard is it to have him email a copy to the receiving FFL? Sounds like OP got in some bad luck dealing with a crappy FFL, but the gun is on the way. Just make sure everything is in order, when you receive the gun, and move on.


Q


2016 MAGA ---> 2020 KAG
* P228 factoids *


 
Posts: 18047 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I would give it a little time. Sometimes people get busy, someone forgets, etc.

I once about 10 years ago bought a Colt 1911 from the classifieds here. I kept checking with my FFL (a busy gun store) and they kept saying they didn't receive it. Seller kept saying he sent it, then provided tracking details and it showed it arrived at my gun store. So I drove there, with the tracking details...….Turns out the seller stuck the Colt 1911 in a grey HK plastic gun box to ship it in, and it was sitting on one of their shelves, but since the box was an HK box, they never imagined it had a 1911 in it......and was sitting there all along.


Kind of hard to log in a gun, when you don't open up the plastic container.
Way to go FFL... Roll Eyes




 
Posts: 7852 | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I would give it a little time. Sometimes people get busy, someone forgets, etc.

I once about 10 years ago bought a Colt 1911 from the classifieds here. I kept checking with my FFL (a busy gun store) and they kept saying they didn't receive it. Seller kept saying he sent it, then provided tracking details and it showed it arrived at my gun store. So I drove there, with the tracking details...….Turns out the seller stuck the Colt 1911 in a grey HK plastic gun box to ship it in, and it was sitting on one of their shelves, but since the box was an HK box, they never imagined it had a 1911 in it......and was sitting there all along.


Kind of hard to log in a gun, when you don't open up the plastic container.
Way to go FFL... Roll Eyes

Yep, 100% the FFL's fault due to his laziness.


Q


2016 MAGA ---> 2020 KAG
* P228 factoids *


 
Posts: 18047 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
Sounds like it will all be sorted out.

I sold a gun on here at least ten years ago and shipped through an FFL I had used before.

He sat on the gun for something like two weeks before shipping it out! I was quite embarrassed. I am thankful that the member I was shipping to was understanding.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
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"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10435 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
Picture of mrvmax
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I would give it a little time. Sometimes people get busy, someone forgets, etc.

I once about 10 years ago bought a Colt 1911 from the classifieds here. I kept checking with my FFL (a busy gun store) and they kept saying they didn't receive it. Seller kept saying he sent it, then provided tracking details and it showed it arrived at my gun store. So I drove there, with the tracking details...….Turns out the seller stuck the Colt 1911 in a grey HK plastic gun box to ship it in, and it was sitting on one of their shelves, but since the box was an HK box, they never imagined it had a 1911 in it......and was sitting there all along.


Kind of hard to log in a gun, when you don't open up the plastic container.
Way to go FFL... Roll Eyes

Yep, 100% the FFL's fault due to his laziness.

ATF regs require it to be logged in by the second business day. It’s obvious he didn’t care for the rules.
 
Posts: 2781 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mrvmax:
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I would give it a little time. Sometimes people get busy, someone forgets, etc.

I once about 10 years ago bought a Colt 1911 from the classifieds here. I kept checking with my FFL (a busy gun store) and they kept saying they didn't receive it. Seller kept saying he sent it, then provided tracking details and it showed it arrived at my gun store. So I drove there, with the tracking details...….Turns out the seller stuck the Colt 1911 in a grey HK plastic gun box to ship it in, and it was sitting on one of their shelves, but since the box was an HK box, they never imagined it had a 1911 in it......and was sitting there all along.


Kind of hard to log in a gun, when you don't open up the plastic container.
Way to go FFL... Roll Eyes

Yep, 100% the FFL's fault due to his laziness.

ATF regs require it to be logged in by the second business day. It’s obvious he didn’t care for the rules.


or they were just lazy and logged it from an invoice or note inside the package, w/o opening the box,

sloppy



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 7755 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I would give it a little time. Sometimes people get busy, someone forgets, etc.

I once about 10 years ago bought a Colt 1911 from the classifieds here. I kept checking with my FFL (a busy gun store) and they kept saying they didn't receive it. Seller kept saying he sent it, then provided tracking details and it showed it arrived at my gun store. So I drove there, with the tracking details...….Turns out the seller stuck the Colt 1911 in a grey HK plastic gun box to ship it in, and it was sitting on one of their shelves, but since the box was an HK box, they never imagined it had a 1911 in it......and was sitting there all along.


Kind of hard to log in a gun, when you don't open up the plastic container.
Way to go FFL... Roll Eyes


It's a very busy gun store with around 5 employees at a time. I don't know the specifics of whether one person logged it and forgot it was in an HK box, or the people that answered the phone every day that I called didn't speak to the other person. I have no idea. All I know is I kept calling and stopped by a few times and they kept saying they didn't receive it or have it. When I brought the tracking number and the seller described the box, they then found it on a shelf and etc.

What I was getting at with the story, is the OP might just need to give it a little time. Obviously the seller dropped it off at his FFL and his FFL simply dropped the ball, just like mine did in knowing they actually had it.
 
Posts: 17608 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Lee:
It wasn't on this forum, but the seller had a good rep. I paid via PayPal Gift, which I know is risky, but I wasn't going to have time to get the cash and then buy a money order for a few days. Seller said he would ship last Mon, then said he dropped it off at his FFL on Tues., then promised me tracking and went radio silent. Today he acted like his end of the deal was done because he dropped it off at his FFL. His FFL lied to me about having already shipped last week, then said his wife did it. Finally, he sent me tracking today, which showed he shipped today. Then he forgot to put a hard copy of his FFL in the package. Just a clustfook all around.


Sounds like everything is moving toward just not as quickly as it should have. Hope it all works out.

I'm not sure how PayPal gift is riskier than sending a money order. I know there's the whole 'mail fraud' aspect but I've never ever seen that work out for someone. To me, PayPal gift is the same as sending check, money order, wire transfer etc.
 
Posts: 2993 | Registered: January 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Rick Lee
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
What I was getting at with the story, is the OP might just need to give it a little time. Obviously the seller dropped it off at his FFL and his FFL simply dropped the ball, just like mine did in knowing they actually had it.


My issue isn't so much the long wait time, it's the broken promises and yes, the seller wrote "I promise to get you tracking by tomorrow" in his email. He did nothing in the timeline he said he would, he didn't ship, he dropped off at an FFL, then acted like his end of the bargain was completed. Uh no. If I take someone's money, it's my problem until the goods are delivered - not UPS's or FedEx's or the FFL's - it's mine and I will move mountains to make things right and let the buyer know I'm engaged and taking responsibility. If I say I will provide tracking by a date certain and I do not, it means I'm dead or incarcerated. Nothing else would stop me.
 
Posts: 1624 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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