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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
A lot of people are saying the Trashtros should’ve had their WS win stripped.

Yea same for Yankees, Red Sox, Giants, ... Roll Eyes ?

Why the Giants?

PED

What titles did they win during that era?

2012 - Melky Cabrera, Guillermo Mota.

Both players were suspended as per MLB, pissed off their teammates who continued to win and was hung out to dry and PNG'd from the organization, they refused to place either on the post-season roster. Yet, you think that title should be taken away as well? The Astros cheating was an organizational issue, Cabrera and Moto were two dumb individuals who openly admitted to PED usage despite a widely publicized, and announced policy. If we're going to take away past rings and pennants for individual stupidity, then there's a whole lot more players than just these two knuckleheads.


My point exactly. You cannot prove that these cheating scandals altered the outcome of the game. If you are going to strip the Astros of their title, how many other titles you will have to take away from teams with cheating scandals in the past?
 
Posts: 859 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bendable:
quote:
it shows a lack of integrity.


not a single person affiliated in M.L.B. (big business)

has any doubt at all that this crap goes on .

any altruistic baseball fan above the age of 7 knows it


Not to the level the Astros were cheating. The video of their games and the audio evidence is what ultimately proved their transgressions. I would expect hundreds of hours of various teams games have been analyzed by investigative reporters and MLB, with no other culprits to date.
 
Posts: 2501 | Registered: March 22, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
If it chambers, fire it
Picture of dave7378
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
A lot of people are saying the Trashtros should’ve had their WS win stripped.

Yea same for Yankees, Red Sox, Giants, ... Roll Eyes ?

Why the Giants?

PED

What titles did they win during that era?

2012 - Melky Cabrera, Guillermo Mota.

Both players were suspended as per MLB, pissed off their teammates who continued to win and was hung out to dry and PNG'd from the organization, they refused to place either on the post-season roster. Yet, you think that title should be taken away as well? The Astros cheating was an organizational issue, Cabrera and Moto were two dumb individuals who openly admitted to PED usage despite a widely publicized, and announced policy. If we're going to take away past rings and pennants for individual stupidity, then there's a whole lot more players than just these two knuckleheads.


My point exactly. You cannot prove that these cheating scandals altered the outcome of the game. If you are going to strip the Astros of their title, how many other titles you will have to take away from teams with cheating scandals in the past?


I agree, No stripping of titles. A big old asterisk attached to that year and the stink of being called cheaters is enough to taint it.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Posts: 5234 | Location: Hampton Bays, NY | Registered: October 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of erj_pilot
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Yeah...my thoughts on this whole charade:




"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 7299 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Yeah...my thoughts on this whole charade:

[/QUOTE. Sir: you are excused from the jury pool!
 
Posts: 2501 | Registered: March 22, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dave7378:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
A lot of people are saying the Trashtros should’ve had their WS win stripped.

Yea same for Yankees, Red Sox, Giants, ... Roll Eyes ?

Why the Giants?

PED

What titles did they win during that era?

2012 - Melky Cabrera, Guillermo Mota.

Both players were suspended as per MLB, pissed off their teammates who continued to win and was hung out to dry and PNG'd from the organization, they refused to place either on the post-season roster. Yet, you think that title should be taken away as well? The Astros cheating was an organizational issue, Cabrera and Moto were two dumb individuals who openly admitted to PED usage despite a widely publicized, and announced policy. If we're going to take away past rings and pennants for individual stupidity, then there's a whole lot more players than just these two knuckleheads.


My point exactly. You cannot prove that these cheating scandals altered the outcome of the game. If you are going to strip the Astros of their title, how many other titles you will have to take away from teams with cheating scandals in the past?


I agree, No stripping of titles. A big old asterisk attached to that year and the stink of being called cheaters is enough to taint it.


Hey look man I quoted your quote so your quote could be quoted by my quote..

For fucks sake, stop! Even Para asked us to stop this quoting the quote of a quote...



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 14509 | Location: FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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Just to show you how this is all blown out of proportion.

{snip} from Wikipedia: link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_stealing#Legality

Legality
According to the unwritten rules of baseball, stealing the signs that are given by the third base coach, or those of the catcher by a baserunner on second base, is acceptable, and it is up to the team giving the signs to protect them so they are not stolen. However, a batter peeking in to see the catcher's signs is considered a violation. The signs the catcher sends to the pitcher to call for the next pitch are considered more "sacred" than the signs a third base coach relays to the batter.
According to the unwritten rules of baseball , stealing the signs that are given by the third base coach, or those of the catcher by a baserunner on second base, is acceptable, and it is up to the team giving the signs to protect them so they are not stolen .

Stealing signs is not necessarily a violation of Major League Baseball's (MLB) rulebook ; it depends how the signs are stolen.

At the December 1961 Winter Meetings, the National League banned the use of a "mechanical device" to steal signs.
The use of electronic equipment is not specifically forbidden by MLB rules , but in 2001, Sandy Alderson, while serving as executive vice president for baseball operations of MLB, issued a memorandum stating that teams cannot use electronic equipment to communicate with each other during games, especially for the purpose of stealing signs.

Before the 2019 season, Rob Manfred, the commissioner of baseball, instituted specific prohibitions on where teams could position cameras and how instant replay officials can communicate with managers in an effort to reduce illicit sign stealing.
 
Posts: 17796 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wouldn't break my heart to have the Mets change their minds on Carlos The Statue.


_____________________________________________________
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 17466 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
Just to show you how this is all blown out of proportion.

{snip} from Wikipedia: link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_stealing#Legality



Legality
According to the unwritten rules of baseball, stealing the signs that are given by the third base coach, or those of the catcher by a baserunner on second base, is acceptable, and it is up to the team giving the signs to protect them so they are not stolen. However, a batter peeking in to see the catcher's signs is considered a violation. The signs the catcher sends to the pitcher to call for the next pitch are considered more "sacred" than the signs a third base coach relays to the batter.
According to the unwritten rules of baseball , stealing the signs that are given by the third base coach, or those of the catcher by a baserunner on second base, is acceptable, and it is up to the team giving the signs to protect them so they are not stolen .

Stealing signs is not necessarily a violation of Major League Baseball's (MLB) rulebook ; it depends how the signs are stolen.

At the December 1961 Winter Meetings, the National League banned the use of a "mechanical device" to steal signs.
The use of electronic equipment is not specifically forbidden by MLB rules , but in 2001, Sandy Alderson, while serving as executive vice president for baseball operations of MLB, issued a memorandum stating that teams cannot use electronic equipment to communicate with each other during games, especially for the purpose of stealing signs.

Before the 2019 season, Rob Manfred, the commissioner of baseball, instituted specific prohibitions on where teams could position cameras and how instant replay officials can communicate with managers in an effort to reduce illicit sign stealing.



You’re right. It’s HOW the signs were stolen. That’s why they were punished.

This isn’t rocket science (or surgery as Para says it). Smile


—————————
Indefatigably succinct.
 
Posts: 2548 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
Picture of old rugged cross
posted Hide Post
It is a "Taint" on the Astro's, top to bottom, including the players. And their accomplishments during this period.

You can disagree or try to explain it away or whatever. But it is what it is. As I said, I kind of like the Astro's. But I am not a homer.

They were given chances and thought they were above the rules and continued.

So they earned what they got. Whether the owner was involved or knew is irrelevant as he can do as he wishes, and he did.

So move on look to the future.



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 14510 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Man of few words

Picture of remsig
posted Hide Post
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Stealing signs is not necessarily a violation of Major League Baseball's (MLB) rulebook ; it depends how the signs are stolen.


Stealing signs is one thing, using a camera is on a whole different level. Where does it say in the MLB rulebook that teams can use a camera and trash can to relay what the sign is? Also, if it were permitted, why did the Astro's get punished and Cora's about to get punished as well? Roll Eyes

 
Posts: 7368 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: July 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by remsig:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Stealing signs is not necessarily a violation of Major League Baseball's (MLB) rulebook ; it depends how the signs are stolen.


Stealing signs is one thing, using a camera is on a whole different level. Where does it say in the MLB rulebook that teams can use a camera and trash can to relay what the sign is? Also, if it were permitted, why did the Astro's get punished and Cora's about to get punished as well? Roll Eyes



Then make it an actual rule not just a feeling from self righteous assholes.

Just repeating the Wiki info.
 
Posts: 17796 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Originally posted by remsig:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Stealing signs is not necessarily a violation of Major League Baseball's (MLB) rulebook ; it depends how the signs are stolen.


Stealing signs is one thing, using a camera is on a whole different level. Where does it say in the MLB rulebook that teams can use a camera and trash can to relay what the sign is? Also, if it were permitted, why did the Astro's get punished and Cora's about to get punished as well? Roll Eyes



Then make it an actual rule not just a feeling from self righteous assholes.

Just repeating the Wiki info.


Using electronic devices to steal signs was outlawed in 2001 via directive from MLB. You should’ve looked further than wiki.

We’re not the assholes here, pal.


—————————
Indefatigably succinct.
 
Posts: 2548 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
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[/QUOTE]

You cannot prove that these cheating scandals altered the outcome of the game.[/QUOTE]



Sure you can. Take a look at the Astros home and away records during the 2017 playoffs. And then take a look at this video. Watch the video from 6 minutes in until the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9up10jsW1c


—————————
Indefatigably succinct.
 
Posts: 2548 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
Love the mental gymnastics it takes to justify real time cheating with cameras and electronic communications.

No wonder the Astros had such a season, they were cheating - much like Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, and the rest of the juicers!

Or if it's so 'OK', why isn't there an upswell of support for those recently (and apparently wrongfully) fired?

Just another *asterisk* season and everyone will always remember it as such. Much like Lance Armstrong is a Tour de France champion in his own mind.
 
Posts: 44940 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
Picture of old rugged cross
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"self righteous assholes."

.QUOTE]

smshulz,

a little self reflection could prove enlightening regarding the term "self righteous assholes."

Wink

you have made it clear no matter what the Astro's did. And have been punished for.You think it was ok. And anyone who agree's with Mlb is a "self righteous asshole and is just a pussy."

That is precious. It really is Smile



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 14510 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:

Sure you can. Take a look at the Astros home and away records during the 2017 playoffs. And then take a look at this video. Watch the video from 6 minutes in until the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9up10jsW1c


Doesn't prove a thing. Only evidence that the Astros cheated. Nobody knows what the outcome of the games would be otherwise... It's baseball where anything can happen. Astros won the title in game 7 at LA.
 
Posts: 859 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by kingfish007:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:

Sure you can. Take a look at the Astros home and away records during the 2017 playoffs. And then take a look at this video. Watch the video from 6 minutes in until the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9up10jsW1c


Doesn't prove a thing. Only evidence that the Astros cheated. Nobody knows what the outcome of the games would be otherwise... It's baseball where anything can happen. Astros won the title in game 7 at LA.


Keep telling yourself that. The only people that don’t want to admit the truth are the Texans in this thread.

They cheated for a reason. Because they were gaining an unfair competitive advantage. Otherwise they wouldn’t do it. Period.


—————————
Indefatigably succinct.
 
Posts: 2548 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Astros 2017 postseason batting average ,
283 Home 208 Away .
Watching the Astro fanboys tie themselves into knots explaining this cheating scandal away is certainly a study in human psychology.
 
Posts: 2501 | Registered: March 22, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:

Keep telling yourself that. The only people that don’t want to admit the truth are the Texans in this thread.

They cheated for a reason. Because they were gaining an unfair competitive advantage. Otherwise they wouldn’t do it. Period.


I never defended the Astros for what they did. I just don't believe taking away their title is the right course of action...
 
Posts: 859 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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