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Trump has suspended H1B visa program—or has he? Is there any hope of reform? From UC Davis professor who has been on top of this issue for 27 years Login/Join 
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Norm Matloff is a professor at UC Davis; we knew him when we lived there, and became aware that he was one of the few people in the country writing about what importing Indian software engineers via the H-1B visa program was doing to American-born software engineers: lowering wages, limiting their careers, making them unemployable after age 35. He wrote about how the tech firms would lie through their teeth about what they were doing, and Congress would go along.

Now Trump has signed an executive order suspending the program. BUT as Tucker Carlson noted last night, not so fast, buddy: the Deep State has 30 days to get the secretary (DHS I think) to make changes, and the tech companies are lobbying furiously—and deceitfully—to get the suspension modified or revoked.

Here’s a link to Norm Matloff’s blog, in which he talks about what Biden would do on this issue if elected.
Link

Example:
quote:
Imagine the government saying, “Women, are you worried about the tight labor market, compounded by a gender Glass Ceiling? Don’t worry, we’re going to add more workers, mostly men.” Or, “Black and Latino owners of small businesses, are you getting hammered by Covid-19? Don’t worry, we’re bringing more small entrepreneurs from the outside, so that they can undercut your prices and dilute your market share.”

Or even better, “You Asian-American engineers and programmers out there, we know that hiring in the tech industry has slowed down, and that you already faced rampant age discrimination in the industry. But don’t worry, we’re going to reverse Trump’s order to temporarily restrict H-1B, so we can continue to have people compete with you for jobs at low wages.” No kidding on this one, because that is basically what Joe Biden said, in a June 27 digital town hall meeting focusing on Asian American issues.

Nationwide, about 25% of computer-related Bachelor’s degrees are awarded to Asian-American students (note: NOT Asian foreign students). In states with large Asian-American populations, it’s even higher, over 70% at my university.

I’m sure the image of American techies on the Hill is of “undeserving whites,” but the fact is that the field has always attracted a lot of Asian-American students, who tend to gravitate to “practical” majors. I wonder whether Biden watched the major 60 Minutes piece in 2017 about the protests by American IT people replaced at UCSF by H-1Bs. There were a number of Asian-Americans (and some blacks) among the protestors.


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Posts: 18000 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's not just software, it negatively effects my industry as well, the yachting industry. There are foreign flagged yachts and mega yachts that come to the U.S. Namely South Florida legally and since it's foreign registered it employs foreign crew. Those crew can stay and work on THAT yacht while it is here. Each mega yacht that comes to Ft. Lauderdale area spends over millions in revenue here between repairs, parts, dockage, fuel etc.......if they can't get the boat and it's full time crew in, they'll just go somewhere else. They spend $4.05 billion in wages within 40 miles of Ft. Lauderdale (tri county area).

I feel Trump needs to focus getting the illegals out, making it a little easier for GOOD immigrants to come here legally, etc.
 
Posts: 21335 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My industry as well. Ain’t just fucking software engineers, it’s all of IT, period. That’s voice and data people from architects, engineers, desktop support, management, mid level management, you fucking name it. It’s about got damn time. I’ve been waiting for Trump to do this (He talked about it on the campaign trail) since he got into office. The company I work for laid off 90% of staff a few years ago and hired an Indian firm, and replaced the 90% with H!B Visas.

That program is supposed to be for talent we do not have in country. Instead these bastard corporations use it as a way to cut some salary and pinch pennies. I know what they make, and it’s not much less than what American workers make. It’s bullshit. Kudos President, thank you. Now we get can get IT people (and every other industry) out from delivering pizza and waiting on tables (young people jobs), etc, and back into real jobs. I have seen this shit ruin lives, and it’s happened to me. Shadowing. You train the H1B to take your job and you get severance. If you refuse to train them how to do your job then they walk you out. Disney was one of the first companies I read about pulling this shit, then everyone started doing it.



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Posts: 12555 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As a IT Recruiter:

Honestly H1B program done right isn't that bad. Gives really smart & qualified people a way to start a life here. BUT: They large Tech companies that abuse it are scum. Even worse are companies that do L1 visas (Intracompany transfers). Because they do NOT have to pay them prevailing wages for the US. They can pay them pennies on the dollar. Basically slave labor for some guy that just wants to get to the US.




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Posts: 8831 | Location: Woodstock, GA | Registered: August 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
My industry as well. Ain’t just fucking software engineers, it’s all of IT, period. That’s voice and data people from architects, engineers, desktop support, management, mid level management, you fucking name it. It’s about got damn time. I’ve been waiting for Trump to do this (He talked about it on the campaign trail) since he got into office. The company I work for laid off 90% of staff a few years ago and hired an Indian firm, and replaced the 90% with H!B Visas.

That program is supposed to be for talent we do not have in country. Instead these bastard corporations use it as a way to cut some salary and pinch pennies. I know what they make, and it’s not much less than what American workers make. It’s bullshit. Kudos President, thank you. Now we get can get IT people (and every other industry) out from delivering pizza and waiting on tables (young people jobs), etc, and back into real jobs. I have seen this shit ruin lives, and it’s happened to me. Shadowing. You train the H1B to take your job and you get severance. If you refuse to train them how to do your job then they walk you out. Disney was one of the first companies I read about pulling this shit, then everyone started doing it.


^^I've personally seen this in several companies. The last place I worked had a rule to always hire H1Bs because they cost 30% less than Americans. Entire departments were replaced with new ones in India, then the Americans were laid off. It's all about cost. H1B workers are mostly single so benefits are cheaper, they don't file workers comp or HR complaints, and are more easily controlled.
 
Posts: 2356 | Registered: October 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan11:


^^I've personally seen this in several companies. The last place I worked had a rule to always hire H1Bs because they cost 30% less than Americans. Entire departments were replaced with new ones in India, then the Americans were laid off. It's all about cost. H1B workers are mostly single so benefits are cheaper, they don't file workers comp or HR complaints, and are more easily controlled.


I've got so much experience with this. They'll take a massive chunk and push the work overseas to India. The in person stuff, on our soil, H1B Visas. It's a shit business practice and why all of us, when we need to call a 1-800 number for support, or whatever, we get some Indian. Those are American jobs and should be here on our soil. You want to come here from out of the country, fine, do it the right way. This program is bullshit.



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Posts: 12555 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Although it has changed a bit in the last three years, the majority of these visas went to foreign consulting firms (mostly Indian) who set up shop in the U.S. and then funneled in thousands of their own countrymen to take the positions. It’s a total scam to supply cheaper more exploitable labor. Some H1-B’s are legit, but I’m certain that it is a small number. The system needs to be trashed and rethought.


-Loungechair
 
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Tucker Carlson is definitely all over this story. The tech giants in Silicon Valley are fighting Trump on this hammer and tong.


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Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I feel Trump needs to focus getting the illegals out, making it a little easier for GOOD immigrants to come here legally, etc.

With you 100% here.

Always marveled at the red carpets some would like to roll out for the illegals who just jump the border, contrasted to the intricate and lengthy dance required of law-abiding folks who want to play by the rules to come be productive citizens.
 
Posts: 14995 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by LoungeChair:
The system needs to be trashed and rethought.


Fixed it for you.

On the other hand the quality of the code is so low ...
 
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Originally posted by senza nome:
quality

Quality means different things to different cultures.


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Posts: 13385 | Location: Bottom of Lake Washington | Registered: March 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If migrant farm works are on one end of the emigrant worker spectrum, then tech workers are on the other end of the same spectrum. Both depress wages of existing domestic workers, both cost their employers a fraction of the wages/benefits a domestic worker would demand. The marketplace is an employer's market thus they can treat those employees with contempt or, neglect if they so choose; either threatening visa non-renewal or, reporting to federal authorities to remove non-productive/uncooperative workers.

While the H1B program has value, it's clear that employers have abused it and the federal govt who issue such, has looked the other way or, been complicit. Time to tighten it up and start punishing those companies who exploit it.
 
Posts: 14537 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Honestly, I'm not expecting any long term changes to H1B visa programs. Large and powerful companies spend a lot on lobbying and contributions to specific politicians to keep their labor pool cheap.

For change to happen, the politicians would need to believe they won't be re-elected unless they go against those lobbyists. There has been outrage about H1Bs taking American jobs for many years without any significant changes.
 
Posts: 2356 | Registered: October 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Disney was in the news a few years back when they brought a bunch of H1B's over and had the existing IT staff train them as their replacements - then let the existing staff go - at least that's how I remember it being reported.

Not sure if it got reported outside of Florida much - but it was a big deal in the local news. I get that companies have to look after the bottom line - but anyway you slice it - that was a pretty d$ck move by Disney.
 
Posts: 247 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: December 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyMCO:
Disney was in the news a few years back when they brought a bunch of H1B's over and had the existing IT staff train them as their replacements - then let the existing staff go - at least that's how I remember it being reported.

Not sure if it got reported outside of Florida much - but it was a big deal in the local news. I get that companies have to look after the bottom line - but anyway you slice it - that was a pretty d$ck move by Disney.


Disney even added a gag order when they laid off the American workers saying if they talked about being replaced they would lose their severance money. A few workers went ahead and talked to media and I think even congress, but after a couple weeks it dropped off the news.
 
Posts: 2356 | Registered: October 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've read enough Indian resumes for Engineering positions that I have come to the conclusion there is rampant fraud about qualifications and experience. Everything is hyped, every school was the top #1 something or other, they know all kinds of software packages, etc.

Many are not nearly as educated or skilled as they claim. Personally, anyone claiming expertise on an engineering software package should be asked to demonstrate it before hiring.

And the other day I was trying to explain to a new Indian engineer the concept of trying to fit a polynomial equation to some data that involves multiple independent variables and a known result, for several instances. You know, a system of n equation and n unknowns? Nope, wasn't gonna compute, she just could not grasp the concept.

Companies say they want the "best and brightest" wherever in the world they come from, so the Indians present themselves as exactly that. If you only hire grads from US Universities at least you can verify the degree and transcript, and they are generally more Americanized by then.

By contrast, East Asian immigrants are not nearly as self-promoting and generally adapt to our culture faster and better.
 
Posts: 4687 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Disclaimer: I am not an HR person, nor am I that familiar with the IT industry.
However, my question is:
So how does a company go about getting an actual background check or skills /education / training qualifications confirmation on someone from India?
Or anyplace outside the U.S? Except Canada, maybe.
If I, as an HR person, could not verify the information the candidate provides, wouldn't that eliminate him from hiring? Or does mere possession of an H1B get him in the door?


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Posts: 15974 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
If I, as an HR person, could not verify the information the candidate provides, wouldn't that eliminate him from hiring? Or does mere possession of an H1B get him in the door?


Ha! That's a really good one! Suggesting that HR would actually verify a transcript or a diploma or experience?

They can barely even match the resume to the job posting, much less actually do anything with it.
 
Posts: 4687 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Disclaimer: I am not an HR person, nor am I that familiar with the IT industry.
However, my question is:
So how does a company go about getting an actual background check or skills /education / training qualifications confirmation on someone from India?
Or anyplace outside the U.S? Except Canada, maybe.
If I, as an HR person, could not verify the information the candidate provides, wouldn't that eliminate him from hiring? Or does mere possession of an H1B get him in the door?


If you are smart (or if you've been burned several times) you have someone who is qualified do a tech screen to evaluate a candidate's skills prior to making an offer.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Broadside,
 
Posts: 6600 | Location: Virginia | Registered: January 22, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It is high time for this. We can teach IT and have students who can do this just as well.

Watch for the gnashing of teeth from Cali IT companies!

HK Ag
 
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