Ammoholic
| I’m not 100% sure what is going on, but it appears to me that from the 10,000’ level, we have largely becomes a society that wants Nieman Marcus quality at Walmart prices. It is harder and harder to find a real craftsman, and I attribute much of that to most folks being unwilling to pay for a craftsman’s expertise.
In CA at least, the boom and bust nature of construction and development hasn’t helped either. When things are booming, it is hard to find experienced subs and everybody wants to be a contractor or a developer. When things go bust, a lot of those newly minted contractors find themselves in a real bind.
It isn’t a field I would want to work in. Too many customers without a clue what is involved grinding to shave off the last dollar and then bitching about getting the quality of work that they paid for. Sure, there are some reasonable customers out there, just like there are some great contractors and tradesmen, but there are enough unreasonable one that it isn’t shocking when folks write “defensive” bids. |
| | | Posts: 6916 | Location: Lost, but making time. | Registered: February 23, 2011 | 
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186,000 miles per second.
It's the law.
| There are crooks and scammers in every profession. And there are good and honorable people in every profession. Nothing has changed. You just have to vet whom you are dealing with. My best friend is a finish carpenter. He does not charge top dollar and he is very honest with his billing. He is never ever not working. He has people waiting in line for him even when the economy is slow. It's all about one's reputation. |
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Ammoholic
| quote: I know several good people that have worked for this person once, and refuse to do so again because they don't want to wait 45 days to get paid at any price or don't have the cash flow to wait 45 days. So how a company or person pays, is another large part of the billing/estimate process. A lot of tradespeople will charge a customer an inconvenience fee if the customer is extremely difficult to work for or extremely slow paying.
Yes. I learned a long time ago that by paying folks who do work for me as soon as I get the bill, bugging them to get the bill to me soon if I am going to be out of town, and differentiating between stuff I’d like done as soon as possible just so I can cross it off my list and stuff that is very important to get fixed now I end up having folks that will drop everything and come bail me out if needed. It is amazing how showing someone some respect and being straight with them can really pay dividends... |
| | | Posts: 6916 | Location: Lost, but making time. | Registered: February 23, 2011 |
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Member
| quote: Originally posted by FishOn:
There are crooks and scammers in every profession. And there are good and honorable people in every profession. Nothing has changed. You just have to vet whom you are dealing with. My best friend is a finish carpenter. He does not charge top dollar and he is very honest with his billing. He is never ever not working. He has people waiting in line for him even when the economy is slow. It's all about one's reputation.
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The guy behind the guy
| slosig, I will even prepay with certain people. I write my lawn/bed guy a check at the beginning of the season and he lets me know when I'm running low. Saves us a both a hassle. |
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Ammoholic
| quote: Originally posted by esdunbar:
slosig, I will even prepay with certain people. I write my lawn/bed guy a check at the beginning of the season and he lets me know when I'm running low. Saves us a both a hassle.
Smart. |
| | | Posts: 6916 | Location: Lost, but making time. | Registered: February 23, 2011 |
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Fortified with Sleestak
| quote: Originally posted by slosig:
Nieman Marcus quality at Walmart prices
I was thinking about the same thing but usually refer to it as "everyone wants filet mignon at dollar menu prices". Another factor is availability. I know of folks who during certain times will only guarantee their estimate for a maximum of 3 weeks due to fluctuation of material costs. An example...last October lumber suppliers estimated a 30% increase in demand for pressure treated lumber and increased production accordingly. Covid hit and lots of folks sitting at home decided they needed all kinds of projects completed. In my area demand for pressure treated lumber increased by over 100%. As suppliers tried to meet demand, pressure treated lumber started coming in super wet with little resting time resulting in an increase of waste lumber that couldn't be used or worse...warped after installation. This causes delays at best and increased cost in labor at worst. Who eats that cost? Usually the contractor. That's expected and usually factored in. Some low bidders don't factor this in and take the risk.
I have the heart of a lion.......and a lifetime ban from the Toronto Zoo.- Unknown |
| | | Posts: 5371 | Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA | Registered: November 05, 2010 |
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When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor
| Maybe it's me but all the ones I've used here are more than honest. I have never had one push something not needed. Just had the genset serviced for the year. Asked about changing the battery which was four years old. Told not needed until next year. That's a common thread here. But I don't shop price. I shop quality work. In the end it's cheaper. Today the price may shock some. But the vendors are paying significantly more for products. |
| | | Posts: 5803 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004 |
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Dances With
Tornados
| ..... And the corollary to this topic is:
Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good....
Good materials aren't cheap, cheap materials aren't good.
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Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
| Look up the project triangle. Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick two.
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Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible.
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Member
| quote: Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
My only comment is that I'm glad I only have seven years and seven months left to put up with customers.
You can say that again.
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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
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| | | Posts: 3963 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017 |
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Quit staring at my wife's Butt
| quote: Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
My only comment is that I'm glad I only have seven years and seven months left to put up with customers.
I hear you there, I'm so tired of it just don't want to do it anymore. Getting close and very picky who I work for. |
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Nosce te ipsum
| quote: Originally posted by LS1 GTO: Done, boom, PROOF!! Now the cat's out of the bag.  lol
Absolutely. Except when *I'm* making $300 an hour. Then it is OK. Experience, tenure, certifications, etc. |
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Drill Here, Drill Now
| quote: Originally posted by slosig:
I’m not 100% sure what is going on, but it appears to me that from the 10,000’ level, we have largely becomes a society that wants Nieman Marcus quality at Walmart prices. It is harder and harder to find a real craftsman, and I attribute much of that to most folks being unwilling to pay for a craftsman’s expertise.
In CA at least, the boom and bust nature of construction and development hasn’t helped either. When things are booming, it is hard to find experienced subs and everybody wants to be a contractor or a developer. When things go bust, a lot of those newly minted contractors find themselves in a real bind.
Illegal immigration has hurt the trades as well especially in border states. Somebody willing to cheat the immigration system and the tax system is also very likely to cheat the building code system. The cheap labor has pushed a lot of people out of the trades, and the tradesmen who stayed/joined the legitimate side of the business have competitors using illegals to get a leg up in the bidding process.
Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity
DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer. |
| | | Posts: 23221 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005 |
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quarter MOA visionary
| quote: Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
My only comment is that I'm glad I only have seven years and seven months left to put up with customers.
I always looked at customers as a golden resource. Problems are a challenge to be conquered even if the customer is the source. It just makes for better business. |
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Member
| You should always get several bids for every project. You should also ask questions and understand the differences. There may be difference in the quality of the parts and how the job is being done that may cause the difference. It is up to you to go with the correct bid. The lowest bid isn't always the best for you.
I had a gas fireplace insert go bad. I called a 'reputable' repair person. He came in and looked at it. Asked to use my tools(he had none with him). He said it would be about $2,000 to fix it. I asked for an estimate. He did provide me with one...that said..Fireplace repair $2000. Not even joking.
I called another shop and they provided a detail estimate for $1,200. Guess which one I went with? Trust but always verify. |
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