https://www.dailywire.com/news...ndelions-joseph-curl

An 87 yr old lady who apparently didn't speak any english was wandering around with a small knife and collecting dandelion greens for a salad. She never threatened or lunged or acted aggressive at all.

Police were called and they ended up tasing/tazing her.

What do you think ? Could you have calmly approached or managed the situation without shooting her with the barbs ?

Police chief says she could have hurt someone - and I realize that is the truth. But it seems like a better way could have been found...

I hold a lot of sympathy and understanding for LEOs. My brother is a retired cop.

Having said that, I find ZERO understanding for tazing this woman! IMO, a pure case of LEO over reaction.

How many nano-seconds would it take for those LEOs to watch what the woman was doing before even approaching her? How about any possible family members who could have acted as interpreters.

Or how about the idiot who called the police in the first place? Apparently in some people's world it is standard procedure to call the cops when you see an 87 YO woman doing something you do not understand.

But maybe the cops were unaware that dandelion greens can be eaten like spinach, or fresh in salads. In any case, I have zero understanding for the cops in this case.

I read the article you linked and the portion you posted leaves out a lot of info.

The person calling 911 stated clearly that she was old, not entirely mobile and not threatening in any way.

I can't help but to feel that the police made a mistake.

quote:

I find ZERO understanding for tazing this woman! IMO, a pure case of LEO over reaction.

You have got to be kidding that young big strong Po Po's can't handle an 87 year old woman?

They should be fired along with their training officers.

As much as LEO's are being scrutinized these days I can't understand this action. It makes zero sense to me. How long would it take to figure out that she didn't speak or understand English. I've known a number of women in their 80's and they all looked frail to me.
Good Lord!

Jim

Totally fucked up.

If that happened to my grand mother, I'd be out for vengeance.

Let me see if I could put a different spin on this, using quotes from the article linked in the OP.

An 87 year-old lady was demented and out on her own with a knife

quote:

daughter-in-law says she has dementia

not on her own property

quote:

she just brought the knife onto the property in her hand

who does not speak English

quote:

only speaks Arabic.

who did not comply with officers' requests to drop the knife

quote:

According to their police report, they repeatedly asked Al-Bishara to drop the knife.

then walked toward the officers with the knife

quote:

Al-Bishara walked toward the police, and when she was about five yards away, one officer fired his Taser and struck her in the chest.

and lived to tell the tale.

Personally I am just glad nobody got deadified. I am not going to second-guess the wisdom of a LEO (or anyone else) stopping someone coming at them with a knife, who does not stop or follow instructions. It makes for bad PR, potentially, sure.

Stop and think - what general advice should LEOs be given? "Now, before you stop someone coming at you with a knife, maybe they don't speak English, so see if you can guess what language they speak (and learn it on the fly.) Oh, and if they're not right in the head, see if you can psychoanalyze what's wrong before you stop them, too, maybe they're harmless and not psychotic." That'd be a recipe for dead cops, I think.

The folks responsible for this poor demented old lady running around on her own (with a knife, no less?!?) need to own up to their own responsibility for this situation. It's sad enough when older folks lose their mental faculties, and sadder still when they are neglected.

Yeah, the cops should have handled this better. Like, returning her home to the family and bitching them out for letting an old lady w/ dementia wander around, alone, w/ a knife and no English.

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:The folks responsible for this poor demented old lady running around on her own (with a knife, no less?!?) need to own up to their own responsibility for this situation. It's sad enough when older folks lose their mental faculties, and sadder still when they are neglected.

End result is the lady and the cops are alive.

Not the cops fault someone let One fly over the cookoos nest.

No, I would not Tazer an eighty year old woman. Not in this circumstance anyway. If by some remote chance I did, then I would immediately resign afterwards and hide my head in shame forever. I don't beat prisoners that are handcuffed, I don't shoot people in the back, I do shoot people that pose a lethal threat to me or other people and I don't abuse my power. I hope this answers your question.

I'm reminded of the incident a couple years ago when cops were called to a retirement community in the Chicago area to help control a 92-year-old -- they applied a couple doses of 12-gauge and he was under control and room temperature.

Bulldog, I'm pretty sure you remember this. Do you remember what happened to the cops?

Ah, the call goes out for LEO comments on yet another questionable (and aren't they all these days) use of force.
No... No tazer for me. I would have rushed her, probably from behind and tried to wrestle the blade from her. Fellow cops would have helped. Good chance the old gal might have been roughed up a little in that event.
Kinda like the 82 year old man I and 3 others fought with over a kitchen knife he used to stab his old lady with. Broke 3 of his ribs and dislocated his shoulder. Dementia involved there too.
Once again, we seek perfect cops, with perfect tools, with perfect judgment and skills, to respond to perfect situations and achieve perfect results.
Let me know when that happens.

Yooper - I really was just wondering what alternate options you guys could come up with.

I think about the 87 year olds I know and can't picture any of them being all that much of a threat - knife or not.
I kind of like your idea of someone coming at her from behind and just wrapping her up. Pin her arms to her sides.

I'm not asking anyone to be perfect. I'm damn sure not perfect and regularly screw things up.

Just wanted to see if the majority were thinking like me... And I think they are.

Bulldog - you answered well. Thank you.

I see no reason LE did not turn and leave.

It was a non-incident.

Have we strayed so far from the trail of common sense and reason that our minds can no longer let us walk away from anything that has no need of intervention?

We daily allow all manner of things worthy of such intervention and action, and then things like this.

What is the orbital period of Para's comet?

Major FUBAR.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

I find ZERO understanding for tazing this woman! IMO, a pure case of LEO over reaction.

You have got to be kidding that young big strong Po Po's can't handle an 87 year old woman?

They should be fired along with their training officers.

Along with the dipshits that hired them.

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:
Yooper - I really was just wondering what alternate options you guys could come up with.

Here's the problem. Sometimes the Taser works much better, and its safer for everyone involved. Going hands on with anyone, let alone the elderly, has its risks. Taking the story at face value that she was not a threat, which these days I don't believe any account I read in the media, at some point with the mentally impaired you are going to have to go hands on. Wrestling the knife from someone with brittle bones runs the risks of broken bones or joints. I don't think anyone would like that any better. The worst part of fighting with people who you are "trying not to hurt" is you eventually wind up hurting them, in my experience.

Did they F this one up? Can't say, I wasn't there. It sounds like they did, but it sure wouldn't be the first article to make things sound worse than what they are with fake news.

Bodycam, if it exists and it is ever released, will tell the tale, good, bad, or indifferent. (And why I love bodycam so)

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:
Yooper - I really was just wondering what alternate options you guys could come up with.

Here's the problem. Sometimes the Taser works much better, and its safer for everyone involved. Going hands on with anyone, let alone the elderly, has its risks. Taking the story at face value that she was not a threat, which these days I don't believe any account I read in the media, at some point with the mentally impaired you are going to have to go hands on. Wrestling the knife from someone with brittle bones runs the risks of broken bones or joints. I don't think anyone would like that any better. The worst part of fighting with people who you are "trying not to hurt" is you eventually wind up hurting them, in my experience.

Did they F this one up? Can't say, I wasn't there. It sounds like they did, but it sure wouldn't be the first article to make things sound worse than what they are with fake news.

Bodycam, if it exists and it is ever released, will tell the tale. (And why I love bodycam so)

Great point regarding the article. It's all we have to make judgement. I'd like to amend my previous post and add 'based on the only source we have of the incident' and we all know that there is bias in the media, just ask our President.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:
Yooper - I really was just wondering what alternate options you guys could come up with.

Here's the problem. Sometimes the Taser works much better, and its safer for everyone involved. Going hands on with anyone, let alone the elderly, has its risks. Taking the story at face value that she was not a threat, which these days I don't believe any account I read in the media, at some point with the mentally impaired you are going to have to go hands on. Wrestling the knife from someone with brittle bones runs the risks of broken bones or joints. I don't think anyone would like that any better. The worst part of fighting with people who you are "trying not to hurt" is you eventually wind up hurting them, in my experience.

Did they F this one up? Can't say, I wasn't there. It sounds like they did, but it sure wouldn't be the first article to make things sound worse than what they are with fake news.

Bodycam, if it exists and it is ever released, will tell the tale. (And why I love bodycam so)

Great point regarding the article. It's all we have to make judgement. I'd like to amend my previous post and add 'based on the only source we have of the incident' and we all know that there is bias in the media, just ask our President.

Jim

These dude may have screwed the pooch on this nine ways to Sunday, I'm not defending them a bit. I have just hit a spot that it is a fact of life that the media, especial local media, will make a big deal out of any police use of force. And 100 percent of the time in my experience they never get it right.

Notwithstanding, what I said about going hands on remains to be true, despite questioning the article.

Once called there, they can't just turn and leave. They leave and she goes missing after having contact with her in that state and doing nothing about it? They're screwed. They leave and she stabs Binky McPhiferton that she had a beef with in 1947 who turns out to be the mailman. They're screwed. They leave and she steps out in front of a car. They're screwed. Once they get out with someone who is mentally ill, they have to do something. This will continue to happen until we STOP calling the po-leece to deal with the mentally unstable, and make the doctors who refuse to do anything but change medicines come and deal with them.

If any of the above had come true, we'd likely be reading an article and commenting on how three cops REFUSED to do their job when (insert scenario) and they just walked off without helping her. And there would be lawsuits.