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Member
Picture of wrightd
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by KevinCW:
This is MY own opinion... but...

First off, an addiction that isn't chemical, is TOTALLY psychological. While a "porn" addiction is a bit silly IMO, I suppose it is possible.

If that is indeed the case, it is a problem for a mental health professional. As in a trained psychologist, not a bishop, priest, shaman, medicine man, or grand poobah of any church/religion/whatever.

If the person needs help, then get him ACTUAL help...


I can't say it better than this. Suggest a real professional to him.

Kevin and jhe are exactly right. Religious professionals, ie pastors, bishops, etc., are NOT qualified, though many would tell you otherwise. Many if not most religious "counselors" will make things MUCH worse for your friend. I know this to be true by experience and observation of other christian families trying to get help from their pastors, when what they needed was qualified medical or professional help. There is no substitute in this situation.




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Posts: 6650 | Location: Nowhere the constitution is not honored | Registered: February 01, 2008Report This Post
Essayons
Picture of SapperSteel
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quote:
Originally posted by SIG228:
. . .Mormon girls are taught sex should not be fun and is for child bearing purposes. And while a separate issue, the prescription drug abuse problem is a result of them not being able to relax with a glass of wine or a beer or two, but they think as long as your cocktail is prescribed by a doctor, it's okay.


I call bullshit.


Thanks,

Sap
 
Posts: 3452 | Location: Arimo, Idaho | Registered: February 03, 2006Report This Post
I Wanna Missile
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quote:
Religious professionals, ie pastors, bishops, etc., are NOT qualified, though many would tell you otherwise.


In this case the Bishop merely refers to the professional program.

As with many things the LDS has a program to help and take care of their own.



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
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Posts: 21408 | Location: 9200 ft in Colorado | Registered: January 25, 2006Report This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ59:
quote:
Originally posted by SIG228:

Mormon girls are taught sex should not be fun and is for child bearing purposes. And while a separate issue, the prescription drug abuse problem is a result of them not being able to relax with a glass of wine or a beer or two, but they think as long as your cocktail is prescribed by a doctor, it's okay.


I've been attending church for over 40 years and have never heard or read that was sex was for procreation only, nor has it been implied. .
One of the three major historical Christian "hubs" was Alexandria, Egypt. The Catechetical School of Alexandria became an important location for theologians and countless Bible studies and commentaries. From what I've read, sex for procreation can be traced to Alexandria before it split-off from the Roman Catholic Church in AD 451. Since I'm not part of the Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox church, I don't know much about its current views. However, I do know that prior to the schism it had a big impact on Christianity and the sex for procreation it's still alive and unwell in pockets of the modern protestant church (including in my buddy's marriage).

Since Protestantism is a 16th century schism from the Roman Catholic church I wouldn't be surprised if it's alive an unwell in pockets of the Roman Catholic church.
quote:
Originally posted by Russ59:
OP, you're friend has asked for helped. He obviously trust your judgement. Point him in the right direction and check in from him from time to time. The addiction recovery program welcomes non-LDS as well. If he waits until the issue implodes, it may be too late to save his marriage and kids. Pornography and it's easy access can destroy lives.
Agreed.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 18033 | Location: N. Houston, TX | Registered: November 14, 2005Report This Post
The Persian
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quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
I hope none of you guys ever sit in a jury. Sheesh, a guy asks for advice and you turn his friend into the Hitler of child pornography.


For some reason this forum seems to escalate quickly from a simple problem is super heinous felony. Like the thread on the dude whose daughter got a dick pic.


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Posts: 20052 | Location: At the wall | Registered: February 13, 2008Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by PPGMD:
quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
I hope none of you guys ever sit in a jury. Sheesh, a guy asks for advice and you turn his friend into the Hitler of child pornography.


For some reason this forum seems to escalate quickly from a simple problem is super heinous felony. Like the thread on the dude whose daughter got a dick pic.


It's not just this forum, it's today's society.

Everything is immediately ramped up to 11 on a 1-10 scale. Admit that you occasionally drive 5 mph over the speed limit and immediately someone will accuse you of endangering their children and you should have your license revoked and be hung from the neck at dawn. Just check any social media site or comments on any news article for confirmation.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Posts: 28048 | Location: VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SapperSteel:
quote:
Originally posted by SIG228:
. . .Mormon girls are taught sex should not be fun and is for child bearing purposes. And while a separate issue, the prescription drug abuse problem is a result of them not being able to relax with a glass of wine or a beer or two, but they think as long as your cocktail is prescribed by a doctor, it's okay.


I call bullshit.


+1

I think the poster may have the LDS confused with Pope Gregory who said that sex for any reason other than procreation is sin. Pope Gregory's view is not my understanding of current Catholic theology. And, from adult married friends who are LDS, I do not believe LDS women are repressed, cold, asexual prudes.

In the mid 70s I was a deacon in a church and with all this chatter around us going on discussing prayer requests one day, a person marched up to me and confessed a little too loud that he needed prayer because he had a problem with masturbation. I didn't ask.

A hush fell over the room until I said this was not something to be discussed in mixed company. As the chatter resumed, I ushered him to the senior pastor and I was thankful to move on.

He was not a bad person but overly honest with a very bad sense of timing and discretion. He was just barely an adult and earnestly seeking to find obedience within his faith.

Your friend has told you a story that does not add up. If he is such a computer nerd and on the computer all the time, there is simply no way he could have missed so much free porn. To pay enough to affect his finances he must be into some extra cost activities.

I agree with many others that there must be more to the story. To refer him to your Bishop is not a bad idea at all. You would be surprised about what pastors have heard and experienced in ministry.

People can be very earnest and very honest in religious communities as individuals may seek to be a better person through transparency and recognition that there is something that has gripped his or her life.

Your Bishop is a very good place to start, especially if you tell your friend that you truly want to help him and that your best help is to refer him to someone with more experience.

The people discounting your Bishop show an astounding lack of knowledge of how many people are bettered through growth, programs and counseling within their religious communities.

Pastors in some states are also mandatory reporters so a discussion with him about even legal implications may make a good episode of "Scared Limp" - a program that I thought may help in high schools when educating young adults about how child support works. Your friend may find some help in learning about the law, too.


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Posts: 2753 | Registered: January 06, 2010Report This Post
Hoping for better pharmaceuticals
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Addicts are never cured. They just change addictions.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Trying to do so will only pull you down.

As others have said the Bishop is not trained for this. A Psychologist trained in addiction may be the best help, however they will tell you it is a long and costly road.

Don't let yourself get sucked into their family matter. You may be seen by both husband and wife as the meddler and you may become the recipient of the anger that follows.




Getting shot is no achievement. Hitting your enemy is. FFL(01) NRA Endowment Member
 
Posts: 8403 | Location: Peoria, Arizona | Registered: April 02, 2007Report This Post
TANSTAAFL
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I agree with Kevin and jhe.

I get mine for free. I don't consider it an addiction, but after the ex-wife i'll stick to porn for a while rather than deal with a real woman. Once my son is 18 and I don't ever have to worry about dealing with her ever again, I'll consider dating.
 
Posts: 578 | Location: Baltimore til I can get out of there. | Registered: June 08, 2002Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
I hope none of you guys ever sit in a jury. Sheesh, a guy asks for advice and you turn his friend into the Hitler of child pornography.


Can you prove he's not? Funny thing is, a jury has quite a bit of facts involved. A call for internet help often has few facts. Yeah, some people have ASSumed the guy is Porn Hitler. But, unless you know the guy, you are ASSuming that he isn't. While lots of good advice has come about help on the addiction side, you, and the OP, can't ignore the fact that given the abundance of free porn out there of consenting adults, that he might be spending money on file sharing sites that deal in kiddy porn. And, for anyone that has no idea how that comes to an end, it isn't pleasant for the family. Search warrants get served, family members get handcuffed, all electronic devices in the household get seized.

Juries often deal in facts. And everyone here is assuming, because we have no facts either way about the particular situation. But, I can tell you, if he is involved in kiddie porn, it is not going to end well for him. And he'll do time, and lose the families electronics in a court order. I've been involved in executing many of these types of search warrants, and these people do get caught.


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Posts: 32873 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Report This Post
Coin Sniper
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If he really wants help, do a little research into treatment options and provide the information. He'll take it or he won't. At that point it is up to him to solve the problem. If you get too deep you risk becoming the scape goat if it doesn't work out.




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Posts: 34860 | Location: Above the snow line in Michigan | Registered: May 21, 2004Report This Post
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The easiest way to help him, would be to show him where all of the FREE porn sites are! Big Grin
 
Posts: 17605 | Registered: June 12, 2005Report This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
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As said, if the man is paying for porn, he has a problem. I've watched my share of porn, I've gambled, I've smoked pot, I've been drunk, I over eat, I've had unprotected sex with entirely too many sleazy women, I've partook in about every vcategory of vice, more or less. But I have never, not once in my life, paid one red cent for porn.

If he is paying so much for porn that he doesn't have lunch money...I'm afraid of exactly what demon he is chasing...and I'm not sure there is a 12 step for it...




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
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Posts: 10435 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Report This Post
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I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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quote:
he is paying so much for porn that he doesn't have lunch money...I'm afraid of exactly what demon he is chasing...and I'm not sure there is a 12 step for it...

Perhaps he's just bad at the internet...

Or sheltered / naive.

Or narrowly focused / likes live cam girls who take requests / etc.

I suspect there are dozens of scenarios more likely than kiddie crap.

That it came up at all, much less multiple times, seems crazy, as though one can't talk about porn without jumping to the most fucked up kind, and based on what (in the OP)?
 
Posts: 23419 | Registered: March 12, 2004Report This Post
Ammoholic
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
he is paying so much for porn that he doesn't have lunch money...I'm afraid of exactly what demon he is chasing...and I'm not sure there is a 12 step for it...

Perhaps he's just bad at the internet...

Or sheltered / naive.

Or narrowly focused / likes live cam girls who take requests / etc.

I suspect there are dozens of scenarios more likely than kiddie crap.

That it came up at all, much less multiple times, seems crazy, as though one can't talk about porn without jumping to the most fucked up kind, and based on what (in the OP)?


A computer nerd that is bad at the internet?

Likely paying for interactive, one on one experience.

Paying for other women (regardless of physical contact), especially at the detriment of your family is cheating on my book, and the wife should be looking for a way away from this loser. If it's kiddie stuff they it's a magnitude worse.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 14260 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Report This Post
posting without pants
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quote:
Originally posted by tanksoldier:
quote:
Religious professionals, ie pastors, bishops, etc., are NOT qualified, though many would tell you otherwise.


In this case the Bishop merely refers to the professional program.

As with many things the LDS has a program to help and take care of their own.


IF that is the case, then I would retract my comments, but I am personally aware of instances where it was not true.

I know multiple people that put their trust if a "faith based" approach to curing their addiction and it at best set them back years, and at worst, provided no help up to the point where their addiction killed them as the "faith based treatment" didn't work. (not to say that other treatments would have, just sure as shit, the pastor had no fucking clue)

While we all know my stance on religion, I certainly agree it has a place. It is great for an overall guide on how to live your life.

That said, when I have a spiritual question, I'll consult a priest (or pastor, bishop, or whatever church leader of your chosen faith). However, when I get a medical problem, cancer, infection, etc... I want a doctor, not a religious leader.

Addiction is both a medical, psychological, and social problem. To have just one form of treatment, and one type of person administering the treatment is a fools errand.

While i understand the previous person that took issue with me talking about a "chemical addiction" i want to clarify that.

While they are somewhat correct in that yes, the brain produces chemicals during euphoric instances, that isn't what I mean.

When I say chemical addiction, I mean similar to opiates, nicotine, alcohol... The actual chemicals in the drugs contribute to the addiction.

While the brain might produce endorphines that make you feel happy during a long walk in the park on a 75 degree day... That isn't nearly the same thing as a opiate addiction... That was my point and why I referred to it as a psychological addiction, like porn, gambling, shopping, or food versus opiates, nicotine, alcohol, etc...

Either way, I STRONGLY suggest, he visit a trained mental health professional who specialized in addiction. You know, an actual doctor. Honestly, he should probably visit a couple of them as second opinions never hurt anyone.





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 32534 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Report This Post
posting without pants
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And I made this a separate post for a reason... it is unrelated to the first one.

How bad is this "addiction?"

I really don't mean to offend anyone here, but with dealing with the subject of both "pornography" and "religion" you get some extremes on both ends.

Is he watching some simple P in V porn on the internet, or maybe a webcam girl take care of herself on the internet for a few bucks a month?

or is he spending thousands of dollars a month/year on crazy midget tranny strippers peeing on each other while playing with barnyard animals?

This is an area where there are HUGE variances between the extremes....

I'm nearly unable to think of a single human being I know that hasn't indulged in a bit of pornography. A bit can be healthy. Some can be a bit weird in the fetish sort (but again, live and let live, if everyone is of legal age and consents...) and SOME can be downright destructive...

What kind of pornography are we taling about and to what extent is it controlling his life? Is he locked in the basement with a left bicep like a computer nerd and a right bicep like Arnold?

Hopefully, there is no child pornography or illegal crazy fetish porn, but generally, people into that DO NOT seek help, or admit it... Obviously THAT would need to be dealt with...

But if the guy just wants to stroke it a couple times a week to girls on the internet... That's totally normal, despite what some "religious" leaders would tell you....





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 32534 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Report This Post
There is a world elsewhere
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Why do people have to assume the worst? He is most likely NOT watching child pornography.

With that said, I have profound doubts his compulsive sexual behavior is limited to pornography. Nobody spends that much on porn.....it could be like Skins mentioned, interactive cam stuff.

or he could be in seeking encounters in person. Does he have a lot of time that is unaccounted for? Enough time to meet somebody from online or a prostitute?

There are the "chemical addictions" then there are the "behavior addictions" i.e gambling, overeating, sex, etc.

Some say sex addiction isn't an addiction, it's all in your head, yada yada. Dopamine, adrenaline, endorphins, oxytocin.....all chemicals. The behavior is what triggers that release of the chemicals which are innate to the human body.

If you are hesitant about calling it an addiction, call it a self-destructive, compulsive behavior (which is what mental health professional would say). Either way, it leads to bad things.

Here's a video from Guy Zimbardo doing a Ted talk. Zimbardo was the psychologist who did the Stanford Prison Experiment, so he has cred.

In any event, THIS IS EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE.

The Demise of Guys



This is another TEDx talk, called the Great Porn Experiment. This gets into the biology of why guys get so into porn (the Coolidge Effect) AND how guys can break the dopamine cycle. Our brains basically cannot differentiate between sex and porn.



Here is a reddit site call NOFAP.

It is a community of guys who are committed to not watching porn and not masturbating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/

There are also several 12-step groups for compulsive sexual behavior.

Sex Addicts Anonymous
https://saa-recovery.org/

Sexaholics
https://www.sa.org/

Sexual Compulsives Anonymous
http://www.sca-recovery.org/

Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous
https://slaafws.org/

!2 step groups aren't for everyone, but he can check it out.

He can also find a therapist who specializes in compulsive behavior.

Ultimately, it is up to him to come to terms with it. It's like pushing rope, he either admits he has a problem and seeks help or not, nobody can coerce or compel him.


A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed.
 
Posts: 6675 | Location: The hard land of the Winter | Registered: April 14, 2003Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
As said, if the man is paying for porn, he has a problem. I've watched my share of porn, I've gambled, I've smoked pot, I've been drunk, I over eat, I've had unprotected sex with entirely too many sleazy women, I've partook in about every vcategory of vice, more or less. But I have never, not once in my life, paid one red cent for porn.

If he is paying so much for porn that he doesn't have lunch money...I'm afraid of exactly what demon he is chasing...and I'm not sure there is a 12 step for it...
Game, set, and match.
 
Posts: 42760 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
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Friends- here is an update on things that have happened since March 1st.
And, let me also say that I and this friend who asked for help are both Mormon and we belong to the same congregation.
Well, things have escalalated since March 1st when I talked to him. His workplace IT guys seemed to have found lots of pornographic images stored in a work laptop owned by the company. About half the images were those involving underage kids.
So, the local police are involved and he has been under arrest since early Friday morning. It is out of our hands, and he has to deal with law enforcement now.
Thank you guys for the help, the links both to LDS sites and non-LDS sites is very helpful.
Now all I can do is pray for my friend, hope he learns that there are consequences for his actions, and that he deals with the incarceration that is inevitably follow.


If you think you can, YOU WILL!!!!!
 
Posts: 3673 | Location: Wolverine-Land!!!! | Registered: August 20, 2005Report This Post
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