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Stangosaurus Rex
Picture of Tommydogg
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The wife and I are looking to visit some friends in Denmark and catch an Iron Maiden concert in June. We will be flying from the East coast of Florida, hopefully not Miami, but we will if we have to. Internet shopping comes up with many airlines we have never heard of. Do you guys have any recommendations and airlines to avoid at all costs? We made the mistake of flying Spirit airlines once, never again.


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Beth Greene
 
Posts: 7840 | Location: South Florida | Registered: January 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’ll tell you what I tell my wife, and other loved ones. Stick to American legacy carriers, and avoid riding on an Airbus. Yeah, the airlines suck right now, but I’ll take Delta/United/American any day of the week over the other bargain basement carriers. I’ve seen too much from inside when I was an airline pilot to risk going any other way.
 
Posts: 451 | Location: Hatboro, PA | Registered: May 25, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can't help you on airline recommendations because I entered Denmark on a high speed train but if you have a chance I HIGHLY recommend visiting Copenhagen it is an incredibly beautiful and fun city.


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Posts: 21075 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SAS nonstop from Miami or DC are your best bets


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Posts: 3062 | Location: The Queen City (the one in Ohio) | Registered: May 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You'll likely have to bounce off one of the big European hub airports to get to Denmark. Here are the 4 largest European hubs by size as well as the American and European partners flying the most out of there.

#4 Frankfurt is the hub for United and its partner Lufthansa (I like flying Lufthansa). Condor is another German airline flying out of there with lots of seasonal flights to US.

#3 Amsterdam is the hub for Delta and its partner KLM.

#2 Paris (de Gaulle) is the hub for Delta American and its partner Air France.

#1 London (Heathrow) is the hub for American and its partner British Airways

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tatortodd,



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 23098 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you fly with one of the large legacy carriers or, national carriers you'll be fine...
United
Delta
American
KLM
British Air
Air France
Lufthansa
SAS

European budget airlines fall into two categories...nice & cheap or, crappy & cheap. Both will charge you for seat assignments, luggage and food beyond in-flight snacks; think of them as Euro version of Southwest or, JetBlue. They're usually operating out of secondary hubs, since deregulation, these type of airlines have flourished and fallen on a yearly basis, many are subsidiaries of larger national carriers. Easy Jet and RyanAir are the two most popular...I'd fly Easy Jet over RyanAir every time. RyanAir will nickel-dime you at every turn, they're actually thinking of creating stand-up seating for short-haul, regional flights so they can pack in more passengers.

Other low-cost airlines:
AerLingus
Condor
FlyBe
WOW
Icandair
Norwegian Air
Vueling
Monarch
 
Posts: 14573 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Iceland Air is a great airline. If you can connect to Dallas, Iceland Air will fly you to Denmark via Reykjavik. If you have a couple of extra days to hang in Iceland on the way (or the way back), you would LOVE it. June is a good month to go there.
Great airline, and they have always flown Boeing jets. Just an idea to make the trip a little more interesting, if you have the time.
 
Posts: 3248 | Registered: August 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leave the gun.
Take the cannoli.
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quote:
Originally posted by JJexp:
I’ll tell you what I tell my wife, and other loved ones. Stick to American legacy carriers, and avoid riding on an Airbus. Yeah, the airlines suck right now...


Yeah, airlines suck right now but the nondiscout carriers of Europe and Asia suck a lot less than the US carriers. As a pilot you may prefer flying a Boeing but to the passenger all we care about is comfort, price, and service. None of which are a concern with the US carriers.
 
Posts: 6634 | Location: New England | Registered: January 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stangosaurus Rex
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Thanks guys, I will share this info with the wife/airline agent!


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Beth Greene
 
Posts: 7840 | Location: South Florida | Registered: January 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had a great experience on Norweigen Air. They fly the Dreamliner out of Orlando for the long leg of the trip, then 737s for the shorter legs.

A quick check shows $250 each way for economy class. You may have to pay an additional $10 for meals, but they are good for airplane food.


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It seems to me that any law that is not enforced and can't be enforced weakens all other laws.
 
Posts: 4357 | Location: Tampa | Registered: August 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:

#2 Paris (de Gaulle) is the hub for American and its partner Air France.



Air France is partners with Delta, not American.


~Alan

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Posts: 30297 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by PD:
quote:
Originally posted by JJexp:
I’ll tell you what I tell my wife, and other loved ones. Stick to American legacy carriers, and avoid riding on an Airbus. Yeah, the airlines suck right now...


Yeah, airlines suck right now but the nondiscout carriers of Europe and Asia suck a lot less than the US carriers. As a pilot you may prefer flying a Boeing but to the passenger all we care about is comfort, price, and service. None of which are a concern with the US carriers.


Maybe you should care. For instance, Easy Jet has a practice of taking zero time folks off of the streets, training them to the bare minimum, throwing them into a sim for a few hours, and then straight to the right seat of your cozy airliner. That's just as bad, if not worse than giving your 16 year old a 700hp Charger, because they managed to pass their driving test.

Low cost carriers like Ryan Air, and Southwest have a history of questionable maintenance practices. The money lost on lower ticket prices went somewhere, and it certainly wasn't fuel costs or pilot salaries.

Asian carriers? Read this:

quote:
"Subject: Fw: [retup] Low-down on Korean pilots


----- hi
enjoy your flight on Asiana..

After I retired from UAL as a Standards Captain on the –400, I got a job as a simulator instructor working for Alteon (a Boeing subsidiary) at Asiana. When I first got there, I was shocked and surprised by the lack of basic piloting skills shown by most of the pilots. It is not a normal situation with normal progression from new hire, right seat, left seat taking a decade or two. One big difference is that ex-Military pilots are given super-seniority and progress to the left seat much faster. Compared to the US, they also upgrade fairly rapidly because of the phenomenal growth by all Asian air carriers. By the way, after about six months at Asiana, I was moved over to KAL and found them to be identical. The only difference was the color of the uniforms and airplanes. I worked in Korea for 5 long years and although I found most of the people to be very pleasant, it’s a minefield of a work environment ... for them and for us expats.

One of the first things I learned was that the pilots kept a web-site and reported on every training session. I don’t think this was officially sanctioned by the company, but after one or two simulator periods, a database was building on me (and everyone else) that told them exactly how I ran the sessions, what to expect on checks, and what to look out for. For example; I used to open an aft cargo door at 100 knots to get them to initiate an RTO and I would brief them on it during the briefing. This was on the B-737 NG and many of the captains were coming off the 777 or B744 and they were used to the Master Caution System being inhibited at 80 kts. Well, for the first few days after I started that, EVERYONE rejected the takeoff. Then, all of a sudden they all “got it” and continued the takeoff (in accordance with their manuals). The word had gotten out. I figured it was an overall PLUS for the training program.

We expat instructors were forced upon them after the amount of fatal accidents (most of the them totally avoidable) over a decade began to be noticed by the outside world. They were basically given an ultimatum by the FAA, Transport Canada, and the EU to totally rebuild and rethink their training program or face being banned from the skies all over the world. They hired Boeing and Airbus to staff the training centers. KAL has one center and Asiana has another. When I was there (2003-2008) we had about 60 expats conducting training KAL and about 40 at Asiana. Most instructors were from the USA, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand with a few stuffed in from Europe and Asia. Boeing also operated training centers in Singapore and China so they did hire some instructors from there.

This solution has only been partially successful but still faces ingrained resistance from the Koreans. I lost track of the number of highly qualified instructors I worked with who were fired because they tried to enforce “normal” standards of performance. By normal standards, I would include being able to master basic tasks like successfully shoot a visual approach with 10 kt crosswind and the weather CAVOK. I am not kidding when I tell you that requiring them to shoot a visual approach struck fear in their hearts ... with good reason. Like this Asiana crew, it didnt’ compute that you needed to be a 1000’ AGL at 3 miles and your sink rate should be 600-800 Ft/Min. But, after 5 years, they finally nailed me. I still had to sign my name to their training and sometimes if I just couldn’t pass someone on a check, I had no choice but to fail them. I usually busted about 3-5 crews a year and the resistance against me built. I finally failed an extremely incompetent crew and it turned out he was the a high-ranking captain who was the Chief Line Check pilot on the fleet I was teaching on. I found out on my next monthly trip home that KAL was not going to renew my Visa. The crew I failed was given another check and continued a fly while talking about how unfair Captain Brown was.

Any of you Boeing glass-cockpit guys will know what I mean when I describe these events. I gave them a VOR approach with an 15 mile arc from the IAF. By the way, KAL dictated the profiles for all sessions and we just administered them. He requested two turns in holding at the IAF to get set up for the approach. When he finally got his nerve up, he requested “Radar Vectors” to final. He could have just said he was ready for the approach and I would have cleared him to the IAF and then “Cleared for the approach” and he could have selected “Exit Hold” and been on his way. He was already in LNAV/VNAV PATH. So, I gave him vectors to final with a 30 degree intercept. Of course, he failed to “Extend the FAF” and he couldn’t understand why it would not intercept the LNAV magenta line when he punched LNAV and VNAV. He made three approaches and missed approaches before he figured out that his active waypoint was “Hold at XYZ.” Every time he punched LNAV, it would try to go back to the IAF ... just like it was supposed to do. Since it was a check, I was not allowed (by their own rules) to offer him any help. That was just one of about half dozen major errors I documented in his UNSAT paperwork. He also failed to put in ANY aileron on takeoff with a 30-knot direct crosswind (again, the weather was dictated by KAL).

This Asiana SFO accident makes me sick and while I am surprised there are not more, I expect that there will be many more of the same type accidents in the future unless some drastic steps are taken. They are already required to hire a certain percentage of expats to try to ingrain more flying expertise in them, but more likely, they will eventually be fired too. One of the best trainees I ever had was a Korean/American (he grew up and went to school in the USA) who flew C-141’s in the USAF. When he got out, he moved back to Korea and got hired by KAL. I met him when I gave him some training and a check on the B-737 and of course, he breezed through the training. I give him annual PCs for a few years and he was always a good pilot. Then, he got involved with trying to start a pilots union and when they tired to enforce some sort of duty rigs on international flights, he was fired after being arrested and JAILED!

The Koreans are very very bright and smart so I was puzzled by their inability to fly an airplane well. They would show up on Day 1 of training (an hour before the scheduled briefing time, in a 3-piece suit, and shined shoes) with the entire contents of the FCOM and Flight Manual totally memorized. But, putting that information to actual use was many times impossible. Crosswind landings are also an unsolvable puzzle for most of them. I never did figure it out completely, but I think I did uncover a few clues. Here is my best guess. First off, their educational system emphasizes ROTE memorization from the first day of school as little kids. As you know, that is the lowest form of learning and they act like robots. They are also taught to NEVER challenge authority and in spite of the flight training heavily emphasizing CRM/CLR, it still exists either on the surface or very subtly. You just can’t change 3000 years of culture.

The other thing that I think plays an important role is the fact that there is virtually NO civil aircraft flying in Korea. It’s actually illegal to own a Cessna-152 and just go learn to fly. Ultra-lights and Powered Hang Gliders are Ok. I guess they don’t trust the people to not start WW III by flying 35 miles north of Inchon into North Korea. But, they don’t get the kids who grew up flying (and thinking for themselves) and hanging around airports. They do recruit some kids from college and send then to the US or Australia and get them their tickets. Generally, I had better experience with them than with the ex-Military pilots. This was a surprise to me as I spent years as a Naval Aviator flying fighters after getting my private in light airplanes. I would get experienced F-4, F-5, F-15, and F-16 pilots who were actually terrible pilots if they had to hand fly the airplane. What a shock!

Finally, I’ll get off my box and talk about the total flight hours they claim. I do accept that there are a few talented and free-thinking pilots that I met and trained in Korea. Some are still in contact and I consider them friends. They were a joy! But, they were few and far between and certainly not the norm.

Actually, this is a worldwide problem involving automation and the auto-flight concept. Take one of these new first officers that got his ratings in the US or Australia and came to KAL or Asiana with 225 flight hours. After takeoff, in accordance with their SOP, he calls for the autopilot to be engaged at 250’ after takeoff. How much actual flight time is that? Hardly one minute. Then he might fly for hours on the autopilot and finally disengage it (MAYBE?) below 800’ after the gear was down, flaps extended and on airspeed (autothrottle). Then he might bring it in to land. Again, how much real “flight time” or real experience did he get. Minutes! Of course, on the 777 or 747, it’s the same only they get more inflated logbooks.

So, when I hear that a 10,000 hour Korean captain was vectored in for a 17-mile final and cleared for a visual approach in CAVOK weather, it raises the hair on the back of my neck.

Tom"


In my opinion, comfort always takes a back seat to safety. I want to get to where I'm going, in one piece, so I'll stick to U.S. legacy carriers. Yeah, they suck compared to Korean, or Emirates in terms of comfort and amenities, but at least I'll get there.
 
Posts: 451 | Location: Hatboro, PA | Registered: May 25, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Flew British airways to Germany last year and service was pretty good.
 
Posts: 840 | Location: DFW | Registered: January 04, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've done the SAS Neward-Copenhagen flight many, many times. No complaints at all. If they have a "midnight" flight, take that one. Gets you in at the best time for sleep cycle adjustment. Just stay awake that first day.
 
Posts: 1305 | Location: Lehigh Valley, PA | Registered: February 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've flown Lufthansa, Delta, and American over the pond. All were good. If I had to choose it would be in that order, but I'd fly any of them again.

Pick the large carrier with the best price and you'll be fine.


J


Rak Chazak Amats
 
Posts: 5281 | Location: SW Missouri | Registered: May 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
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Last time we flew to Europe we flew KLM, and would do it again. Incredible service, friendly crew, etc etc etc.

I flew United to Idaho a while back, and should I have to go back to Idaho, I will DRIVE, as everything I have heard about flights that end up in Spokane they all suck, big time.

:Typical US domestic flights. Expensive, unfriendly crews and gate agents, and take you own lunch/snacks with you.

something to drink, like coca-cola? Yeah, it's free but you get about half a cup.

At least on UAL.


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 25640 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just an ACARS message
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quote:
Originally posted by dlc444:
I had a great experience on Norweigen Air. They fly the Dreamliner out of Orlando for the long leg of the trip, then 737s for the shorter legs.

A quick check shows $250 each way for economy class. You may have to pay an additional $10 for meals, but they are good for airplane food.


Friends do not let friends fly on Norwegian Air. They are ruining the entire airline industry.


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Posts: 3062 | Location: The Queen City (the one in Ohio) | Registered: May 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wife and I flew on Lufthansa last December to Frankfurt from Newark, NJ. While I think probably all seats are a little snug (excepting first class), the food was good, beer and wine were good and later in the evening they came around and offered Baileys on ice.

I would recommend them first, followed by any other major airline.
 
Posts: 2130 | Location: south central Pennsylvania | Registered: November 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris42:
Wife and I flew on Lufthansa last December to Frankfurt from Newark, NJ. While I think probably all seats are a little snug (excepting first class), the food was good, beer and wine were good and later in the evening they came around and offered Baileys on ice.

I would recommend them first, followed by any other major airline.


I have never flown on Lufthansa but the wife has, as well as her brother and sister in law.

They all said it was very good.


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 25640 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My wife has done the Boston-Amsterdam-Bologna and back route for work dozens of times over the past several years. Delta to KLM City hopper. Has tried connecting through DeGaulle and flew Lufthansa through Munich once, but this is the way she finds easiest for her and best for on time performance.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Blackmore,


In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: W. Central NH | Registered: October 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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