It is a design intended to save gas and placate liberals. No engine in the world is more reliable than running under a steady state. Stops and starts can’t improve anything besides gas mileage. But that will be done at YOUR expense. More failures, more wear. You can’t beat physics.

Stopping and starting is harder on your engine. Period.

Wife MKC has it, initially it was aggravating now it's simply an annoyance, all we have to do is press the deactivate button, every time you start the vehicle.

I wonder if you reversed the wires on the switch if it would deactivate the process on startup, making the switch a turn it on vs turn it off switch..

I had it on an Audi Q5 with a 6 cyl. I had no problems with it for the 35K I had the car. Traded it in for a bigger Q7 TDI. My wife hated it, I had no problem with it. I didn't really like it and there was a click to turn off button right on the dash. Once I got used to it, it as fine. As for summer months in FL, I don't recall much of a dip, if any, in the AC at stop lights to be honest.

It is probably just grounding out a wire coming from the computer. What you could do is wire a relay to a key on 12 volt source and hook the button wires to other side of relay.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Wife MKC has it, initially it was aggravating now it's simply an annoyance, all we have to do is press the deactivate button, every time you start the vehicle.

I wonder if you reversed the wires on the switch if it would deactivate the process on startup, making the switch a turn it on vs turn it off switch..

I was always taught, from the old school, that "the worst thing you can do to an engine is start it".

Added engine wear or not aside, I just wonder about the starters and how long they will last. Cars today changing the starter can be a major operation, pulling off upper intakes, unbolting motor mounts and raising engines. It's not a half an hour job like it once was.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
I was always taught, from the old school, that "the worst thing you can do to an engine is start it".

Added engine wear or not aside, I just wonder about the starters and how long they will last. Cars today changing the starter can be a major operation, pulling off upper intakes, unbolting motor mounts and raising engines. It's not a half an hour job like it once was.

Starters are electric motors. The more they are used, the more wear occurs. But don’t worry. It will be sure to fail after the warranty is up. Lol

It’s not just the starter. Every time that engine turns over without oil pressure there will be additional uneccessary wear.

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
It’s not just the starter. Every time that engine turns over without oil pressure there will be additional uneccessary wear.

I have a 2018 F150 and the s/s is almost imperceptible unless you roll down the window. I still shut it off unless I'm stopped for a train.

I don't like the idea of loading the engine before the oil pressure comes up.

If the original starter dies in my 15-year old car today, the car will likely be stopped in one of 3 places: my garage at home, my work parking lot, the parking lot of some store/restaurant I am visiting. No big deal, I call a ride or find another way to get where I am going.

When the starter dies on one of these auto-start/stop cars it will likely be sitting at an intersection, or maybe on the highway in stop-and-go traffic. Now you are stuck in the car while traffic is blowing by you on both sides. Imagine the additional backups and accidents that will be caused by all these cars sitting in the driving lanes with dead starters.

It's not happening now while they are all new and under warranty but it will happen eventually. Starters are designed to have a life of about 30,000 cycles which is estimated to be the use rate for 10 years and 100,000 miles. Obviously some OEM's use better quality starters than others. These start/stop systems have just increased the number of cycles per year by probably 10x. I guarantee the OEM's have not increased the design life of the starters by 10x.

Don't you guys suppose that an auto start/stop engine will have the starter components engineered for the anticipated use?

I have an APU on a truck that is used for hotel loads. It starts and stops constantly, and when it does start, it revs immediately up to full speed (1800 rpm). It now has over 12,500 hours on the unit, and nothing has been replaced. It doesn't even use any oil between changes. It is a Yanmar diesel. You can see the flywheel, and the teeth look brand new. Those Japanese make a hell-of-a little diesel motor!

Sigforum 100 years ago:
"Starters? Pfffft!! My hand crank never needs a jump!"

quote:

When the starter dies on one of these auto-start/stop cars it will likely be sitting at an intersection, or maybe on the highway in stop-and-go traffic.

Even if the rate of failure is 20% of what it was 20 years ago, this is still an a statistical certainty for anyone taking a trip with 5 or more stops on the way. i.e. virtually every person who starts a car and pulls out of their driveway.

My wife's Mercedes Benz has it - it's a "feature" that even our salesman lamented when we bought the car. MB's system is supposed to be one of the best, and in truth it doesn't cause me any issues. But my heart still sometimes skips a beat when it turns the engine off at light. I guess I'm not so far removed from the days when that was a bad thing!

My wife, on the other hand, hates it. She complains every time we visit the dealership, and pretty much automatically hits the "eco" button (disables it) when she gets in the car. She admits it doesn't really cause her issues, but the panic (similar to mine) when it happens aggravates her too much...

In terms of wear and tear, the folks at the dealership tell me the parts impacted were designed with this start / stop stuff in mind... all I can say is I'm glad we have the extended warranty...

I hate it on my F150 and turn it off every time

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Don't you guys suppose that an auto start/stop engine will have the starter components engineered for the anticipated use?

A fair point. I don't know. I sure as hell hope so.

Slight thread tangent: on something that will almost certainly fail at some point and have to be replaced, couldn't they make it a little easier? I have a 2009 Hummer H3 (3.5L I-5 engine) on deck waiting for a starter. 4.5 hours labor because you have to take off the left front wheel, inner fender, battery box and intake manifold, as well as moving an A/C line, which requires evacuating the A/C. There are other equally bad or worse ones out there.

I think it was a Ford Escape that I rented. Stop/Start was rough. They need to make it smoother.

“Don't you guys suppose that an auto start/stop engine will have the starter components engineered for the anticipated use?“

They’ll have it engineered for the lightest weight components that will last until the warranty expires, most probably.

quote:

Originally posted by Phelen_Kell:
I think it was a Ford Escape that I rented. Stop/Start was rough. They need to make it smoother.

No. It’s a “feature” that needs to be eliminated.

The battery is still a battery and has x amount of cycles too!

Most of the people in the thread that don’t mind it are driving Volvos or Audis. I get that they may have figured it out / made a better system.

The crappy Fords and Chevies with it suck. When the motor turns off at a light, the AC flow cuts to about half in force and temperature - and the startup to acceleration / movement is near a second, if not more. Seems minor but if you are working in places where the temperatures top 100+ in the summer, it matters. Especially if you have to wait somewhere in your car.

Thankfully I’m a Hertz Gold member, so I get to pick my rental now. I sit in the car, smell for old smoke, check for USB ports, and start the car to see if it has this feature. If those checks fail, I move on to another car.

I traveled to Denver in March and rented a car that had this feature. The first time I stopped at a light and then got going again, it surprised me, as I didn't know that "feature" was on the car. I honestly didn't care for it...

As a side note, I wonder what effect on overall average gas mileage these engines will experience. I once heard MANY moons ago that it burned more gas to shut off your car's engine and then restart it within 3 minutes than it did to just let it idle that entire time. I never researched the data to support or debunk this statistic...