I'm looking into getting a compensated nut installed. From what I can tell the Buzz Feiten system is the most advanced but a certified installer must install it. The Earvana is cheap and apparently wears out but can be self installed. There are a few other versions that I'm not going to try because they only sell on eBay.

So far I've contacted 4 certified installers for Buzz Feiten systems with no response in 6 months. So I don't even knew what it costs. I think the site is outdated.

Any opinion on these modifications? Other options?

Have you contacted Mike Lull. I believe they do it. I have one of their basses that's been Plek'd & it's the best intonation I've ever played.

Isn't it true that ANY string tuning system will have some compromises to perfect intonation, string-to-string, just because of physics I don't really understand?

So, I think the Feiten system makes compromises that are different than normal, and maybe they are smaller compromises. Maybe they are more pleasing to some ears.

I have never felt the need to adopt a new tuning system on any guitar I had. They all seem to be able to be tuned quite accurately. I wouldn't adopt the system just because of a theoretical improvement if I wasn't unhappy with what I was hearing on my instrument.

The Feiten System is not just a nut, it also includes a specific way to "detune" slghtly so that the overall pitch errors are minimized.

The Earvanna is just a nut that is supposed to correct intonation.

Both look interesting to me, but I have never actually tried either. I was thinking of ordering an Earvanna on my next neck.

I do not have perfect pitch, but I do seem to be highly sensitive to discordances within chords. I have 6 electronic tuners and I am never satisfied. It drives me nuts. Some days are better than others. Of course I have all my guitars already intonated using the classic techniques. I have tried lots of "compromise" tunings, etc.

Anything using a "even tempered scale" will have chord situations that are "out of tune". The question is always just what you can hear and how much it bothers you. The guitar has the additional errors associated with slightly different string pressures at different points on the neck and tolerances on fret placement. "Perfect" would have to be considered "perfectly in tune with the even tempered scale at all points on the fretboard"....which will still included "dissonances", but most people won't notice.

It is pretty easy to see how "bad" most guitars are, though: Using a chromatic tunmer, get the guitar intonated to "perfection" using classic techniques ( open and 12th fret). Then finger some 1st through 5th fret notes and observe how "out of tune" they are on the tuner. This occurs even if you have "magical-perfectly even finger-pressure". Personal variations in finger pressure are a whole 'nuther level of complexity.

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
Have you contacted Mike Lull. I believe they do it. I have one of their basses that's been Plek'd & it's the best intonation I've ever played.

Looks like Mike Lull is a bit out of my area. About 2500 miles away.

My Les Paul had been factory Pleked. Is a good player.

Another option could be to have a zero fret installed. It's a fret installed right next to the nut. I haven't tried it, but it's something I'd thought about doing with my guitars before.

Guitars were never designed to have perfect intonation - if they were they would look different.

Tuning is always a compromise. I will tune close with an electric tuner and then fine tune by ear to get something that sounds good to me.

Then again I play telecasters with three saddles - so what do I know about intonation.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Isn't it true that ANY string tuning system will have some compromises to perfect intonation, string-to-string, just because of physics I don't really understand?

So, I think the Feiten system makes compromises that are different than normal, and maybe they are smaller compromises. Maybe they are more pleasing to some ears.

I have never felt the need to adopt a new tuning system on any guitar I had. They all seem to be able to be tuned quite accurately. I wouldn't adopt the system just because of a theoretical improvement if I wasn't unhappy with what I was hearing on my instrument.

With a "normal" guitar, the intonation errors across the fretboard are pretty variable, some places they're tiny and some places they are significant.

The Buzz Feiten system is an attempt to keep the intonation errors small at every position on the fretboard. Part of doing that means tuning some of the open strings slightly out of tune. (Made up numbers: in combination with the modified nut and saddle positions, tuning one string 2% flat might mean that now that string at the 3rd fret is 2% sharp instead of 7% sharp.) That also means you need either a special tuner with the offsets built in or a tuner that you can set up with the offsets (I have a Sonic Research ST-200 strobe tuner that lets you set custom offsets).

With that said, I have a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system (a semihollow Anderson Cobra T) and two guitars without it (a Stratocaster and a Martin acoustic) and they all sound good to me.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
... With that said, I have a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system (a semihollow Anderson Cobra T) and two guitars without it (a Stratocaster and a Martin acoustic) and they all sound good to me.

Tune the Anderson and Strat up and compare F major, first position, for me.

I have a Sonic Research ST-300 so the offsets are no big deal.

I know about equal temperament and all that. I'm just not satisfied with the out-of-tuneness especially at the first fret.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
... With that said, I have a guitar with the Buzz Feiten tuning system (a semihollow Anderson Cobra T) and two guitars without it (a Stratocaster and a Martin acoustic) and they all sound good to me.

Tune the Anderson and Strat up and compare F major, first position, for me.

I have a Sonic Research ST-300 so the offsets are no big deal.

I know about equal temperament and all that. I'm just not satisfied with the out-of-tuneness especially at the first fret.

That is my point, really. If a standard guitar's tuning doesn't sound good to you, the Feiten system may be the thing for you.

If a conventional nut and bridge sound good to you, then you don't need Feiten's system.

quote:

Originally posted by henryarnaud:
Another option could be to have a zero fret installed. It's a fret installed right next to the nut. I haven't tried it, but it's something I'd thought about doing with my guitars before.

I have one guitar with a zero-fret. It is maybe slightly better, but doesn't really solve the problem.

All my guitars have conventional nuts with the exception of my 1988 Strat Plus which has the Wilkinson on it. With that nut and the locking tuners it never goes out of tune. While I think they are ugly as hell, they work.

quote:

Originally posted by R K9 J:
All my guitars have conventional nuts with the exception of my 1988 Strat Plus which has the Wilkinson on it. With that nut and the locking tuners it never goes out of tune. While I think they are ugly as hell, they work.

I'm not talking about issues with tuning stability, I'm talking about the intrinsic dissonance of a Major 3rd at the first fret.