SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan.
Main Page The Lounge Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Could very well be the case. | |||
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Political Cynic |
I have written an acquaintance who pointed me to the graphic I posted and have asked for help from his site. I am looking for the lat/lon coordinates of each of the plotted points, as well as the local time stamp for each IF I understand mathematics properly, I should be able to calculate the total distance traveled, the total time between the initial point and the last point (as well as the straight line distance between the initial point and the presumed collision point) which is really what I am interested in. If this shows the two ships meeting to survey damage, that means the collision took place OFF of the data that is shown in the graphic [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
That course change was very likely pre-plotted well ahead of time. From the below map, it should be obvious why they changed course...  This message has been edited. Last edited by: Balzé Halzé, ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
What, they wanted to avoid that big chunk of land? | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
good point. (ok ,excellent point) but did DDG 62 pick it up? (that Crystal had changed course enough to come at them) | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Apparently not. | |||
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| Member |
The Crystal changed course and hit the USN ship, the navy ship failed to note the course change regardless of why the Crystal changed course. I suspect that those manning the radar systems were negligent, as the destroyer had 15 minutes to note the course change and evade. A fiberglass sailboat might be hard to spot on radar, but I would expect a steel hulled destroyer to clearly show up from 20 miles away. The Crystal radar operators most likely would have seen the destroyer, unless they were negligent or worse. -c1steve | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
all comes straight from Marine Traffic I am looking at it right now that is where I got the local times from in the earlier plot posted  why calculate anything ? lat/long in upper right corner scale in lower left cornerThis message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy, | |||
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| Political Cynic |
thats not what I see when I go to Marine Traffic... [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
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| Member |
If a destroyer, which is built and designed for maneuverability in battle, having state of the art radar and tracking systems, cannot get out of the way of a highly unmaneuverable container ship 4x it's size, something is wrong here. A destroyer is designed to be stealthy at sea. BUT, what was the crew of the destroyer doing and why didn't they react? The destroyer is going to have more crew on watch between the bridge, lookouts, and radar room than the container ship has in total crew on board. They're a destroyer keeping a lookout for enemy threats at all times. And I agree with Balze Haze, there is no reason the Captain shouldn't be in his bunk. The destroyer has a highly trained first officer and second officer that should be qualified to run that ship. | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
getting nervous http://www.navy.mil/submit/dis....asp?story_id=101098 Vice Adm. Aucoin Holds Press Conference about USS Fitzgerald Collision Story Number: NNS170618-01Release Date: 6/18/2017 10:27:00 AM YOKOSUKA, Japan (NNS) -- The following are U.S. 7th Fleet Commander Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin's prepared remarks for a press conference held June 18 at Commander Fleet Activities Yokosuka, Japan, about the collision of USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) with a merchant vessel June 17. Thanks for coming today. USS Fitzgerald experienced extensive damage and flooding after a collision with the Filipino container ship at 0220 local time , 17 June, approx. 56 nm off the coast of Honshu, Japan. **************** Navy keeps saying 0220. The 180 turn at 203 makes the collision time very important Internet is abuzz that the cargo ship turned around before the collision 130 still feels right, but it sure would be good to hear the Navy say it | |||
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| Member |
That is the $64 million dollar question. ---------------------------------- Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Well then I'm out of ideas. Makes no sense whatsoever. What was the speed of the container ship at 0220? And what was her speed after? She seems to maintain heading and speed through that time. I don't see any indication of a collision then. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
You need to realize it was the PAO corp that put together that set of talking points for the VADM. Having seen mishaps be reported and the initial confusion, it isn't uncommon for me to see bad data passed around at the high level for some time, but at the investigation level the facts are known pretty accurately, pretty quickly - and the investigation doesn't really care what the headshed is putting out, they are busy getting to the bottom of the situation. | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
UTC / local time / speed / course 1714 / 0214 / 12.4 kts / 255 deg 1718 / 0218 / 12.9 / 255 1720 / 0220 / 13.7 / 252 1724 / 0224 / 14.1 / 250 1726 / 0226 / 14.4 / 250 1729 / 0229 / 14.6 / 255 1733 / 0233 / 13.0 / 255 are my UTC to local conversions correct ? adding: I wonder if the Navy is aware that a lot of people are looking at Marine Traffic and saying WTF ? And I cannot believe the Navy doesn't know about the cargo ship company statement. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
The Captain has orders to be notified every time a contact comes within a specified distance, or is projected to do so. In my limited time at sea, as an officer on the bridge or in CIC, this standing order is scrupulously complied with. My memory is the usual limit is 2,000 yards. It may be more on a carrier. This was what we were trained to expect, and what was done in every occasion in my limited experience. The description of the course change made me think of a scenario, that the course change put the merchant ship angling toward the destroyer. That contact had already been reported as parallel, overtaking, and was close enough that nobody picked up the course change. We have no idea what the course and speed of the destroyer was, or if it changed at any point in the accident sequence. The OOD and JOODs have been qualified, signed off for various underway situations. Steaming alone in daylight, night, formation, underway replenishment, etc. In 1969, on the Evans, which turned the wrong way and was hit by the Aussie carrier, at night, it was revealed that the deck officers were NOT properly trained and signed off. It was a simple change of station in the formation from ahead to port to aft to port, simple maneuvering board scenario that you do hundreds of at OCS, and I assume at USNA and the ROTC programs. That collision sliced the Evans in half, 75 sailors died. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
If the watch crew were standing watch and paying attention, the fillipino freighter would not have gotten within 2000 yards in the first place. | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Japan standard time is +9 hours UTC. Looks right to me. And if so, there was definitely no collision at 0220. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
It isn't a priority for them to make sure every tom dick and harry sitting behind a computer feels good about their theories of what happened. The telling thing is nowhere in the VADM's statement is there any indication of concern about the container ships course or activities. Unlike most of the media, the Navy doesn't strive to give 24hr a day updates. They have shit to do, like bury shipmates, figure out what happened (for real), and fix an expensive and important warship. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Oh shit, more facts and logical assessments. Keep dropping the truth bombs, they are definitely needed in this thread. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan.
Main Page The Lounge Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan.© SIGforum 2024